Andrew Patterson

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Music from the 60s to today. IPL radio. [00:00:04] Speaker B: And you're listening to the Perth Property Bros with Josh and Carlos. And that was Coldplay there. [00:00:09] Speaker C: Carlos, you are cruising for bruising. [00:00:11] Speaker B: Yeah, there you go. [00:00:14] Speaker C: What were we talking about Coldplay during the break? [00:00:16] Speaker B: We were, wasn't it? [00:00:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:18] Speaker B: What was it about again? [00:00:18] Speaker C: The CEO, of course. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Yeah. It's what's making headlines a little bit, isn't it? [00:00:24] Speaker C: Isn't it amazing? [00:00:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it was. [00:00:27] Speaker C: Yeah. It just caught fire that one and just took off it. People mocking it and they're just replaying it all over the place. [00:00:35] Speaker B: I was just seeing it. It was 36 million views within two days or something like. Wow. It was crazy. [00:00:41] Speaker C: They should have just gone with it. Yeah, should have just given the cam a kiss instead of trying to hide. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Well, it's done now. [00:00:48] Speaker C: So. So we've got Josh, we got some stats. [00:00:52] Speaker B: So we were obviously we're back to talking property again, not CEO. No, we wanted to highlight again that, you know, we've been talking about properties and it is, you know, the last. [00:01:06] Speaker C: Numbers of property on the market. [00:01:07] Speaker B: Numbers of property like the last we spoke was what, about 4,000 properties on the market. Then it went down to 3, 6. Now it's about 3,400 properties on the market. [00:01:16] Speaker C: So it seems to be consistent with every week when we look at the stats, it drops about 200. [00:01:20] Speaker B: Yes. So four weeks ago it's about 4,000. Same week last year we had 3,200 properties on the market. [00:01:28] Speaker C: Okay, so it's pretty comparable to last year. [00:01:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:30] Speaker C: So it effectively means that the numbers of new listings coming on the market are not replaced. Placing the sales going out the door. And we've got a shortfall of about 200 month by month. [00:01:42] Speaker B: That's right. And properties for sale, there's about 806 properties. So that's 586 houses, that's 139 units and 81 land. [00:01:53] Speaker C: That's the breakdown. [00:01:55] Speaker B: That's the breakdown, yes. So still our top selling suburbs at the moment is Perth Ellenbrook, Ay and Alamos. [00:02:02] Speaker C: What about Morley? You love Morley so much. [00:02:04] Speaker B: Molly's gone out. It's not there anymore. [00:02:06] Speaker C: Jeez, A beautiful. [00:02:07] Speaker B: Well, it's not that it's got, it's. There's not a lot of properties in Morley. It's going out really quick and south of the river. So all this made. Made it. Baldi is Byford, Armadale. [00:02:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:20] Speaker B: And Rockingham. [00:02:22] Speaker C: So even now, you know, one of our, our colleagues just sold the property in, in Armadale and It was about 100 grand over expectation. When we do the research, we look at what's on the market, what's sold, we compare it by land size, by quality of the build, by age of the build, and we've got enough data points to say with, you know, within reason, you know, it probably should be from around, you know, this sort of range, say 520. In this case, 520 to 550 is about right. This place went over 100 grand over the asking over east investor. So obviously they still think they can, they can make some money in Armadale. It's just, it's been the case for the last couple of years and they have properties I've sold have resold for, you know, at least 2, 300 grand more. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Is it a subdivision potential or anything like that? [00:03:23] Speaker C: It was a big block, 800 odd. So you definitely granny flat. I didn't look at the R code specifically on that one, just the comparisons. [00:03:34] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:03:35] Speaker C: That's your job, Josh. You look at splitting them up, mate. Yeah. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Oh, well, we look at whatever potential there is, isn't it? [00:03:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Because this is what you. You're very good at, isn't it? When you're looking at properties for a buyer, you are. You're going in to answer those questions. One, can a granny flat go in? Two, is, is there enough room down the side or down the back to actually create a whole other title and split it off, sell it off? Is it a corner block? Corner blocks are very good because sometimes you can actually get that subdivided rear to access through another street. [00:04:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And I mean, that's one of it. And the other things are also, like I was telling you before about value add. Like, you know, it's a three by one. Can I make it a 4x1? Can I add an additional bathroom in there to make it a three by two, you know, that kind of thing. Or can I convert a potential living area into a bedroom to make it so all those gives it value? [00:04:30] Speaker C: There's a cost benefit analysis on this, isn't there? [00:04:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. [00:04:32] Speaker C: If you're going to spend 20 grand on a new bathroom, is it going to make you just your money back or is it going to make you 50 grand? So 30 up? [00:04:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:42] Speaker C: Or is it going to make such a significant difference that it's going to be about 100 grand? [00:04:46] Speaker B: I've got an interesting question that I was asked by a real estate agent friend of mine as well, probably a good one to have a discussion on the show. So he has one by one, one plus a study. Now he's thinking of converting it a study into a bedroom or it's currently used as a bedroom. [00:05:07] Speaker C: Is it a house? [00:05:08] Speaker B: It is a house. [00:05:09] Speaker C: A one bedroom house. [00:05:10] Speaker B: A one bedroom house. [00:05:11] Speaker C: Really? How big is the land? [00:05:13] Speaker B: It's not that big. It's not that big. So the study is pretty small. So you're looking at maybe a 2 by 5 by 2 by 2 or something like that. [00:05:27] Speaker C: Okay. [00:05:27] Speaker B: Yeah, you can put in a single bed. [00:05:29] Speaker C: Okay. I've seen some very small single bedrooms. So. [00:05:32] Speaker B: But what he was asking me was, Josh, can I actually put this up as a two by two by one? And my answer was, you have to be really. It's a hard. It's hard to say that because if that's the case, we can always convert anything. You build a one by one. You didn't build a two by one. That's a big price difference there, right, Between a one by one and a two by one. [00:05:57] Speaker C: So how would you sell a generally smaller. [00:06:00] Speaker B: A lot smaller. I think a lot of people especially currently has this notion that if there's no built in wardrobe, it's not a bedroom. No, that doesn't work that way. That's right. [00:06:11] Speaker C: It goes back to your initial residential approval. So you can generally have five bedrooms on a residential approval. And when you're looking at granny flats, this is when it starts to sort of. You start reallocating bedrooms. So say you have four bedrooms in the house and you want to build a granny flat with two bedrooms. You might reallocate the house to be a three bedroom with a study. And then you might have two bedrooms at the back. Or you keep your four bedrooms and a study at the house and the other one becomes a one bedroom with a study. It's still all those numbers of rooms, but they're all just adding up to be the five maximum on the residential approval. And that's got to do with numbers of bathroom, how much the sewer's been used, how many cars are laid on the lot, that sort of thing. So yeah, reallocation is not a difficult process. Sometimes you can basically just call council, which we did for a property in Shoalwater, and say, hey, I've got a room. We converted a media room. It was a four bedroom house. I was looking at the averages and at the time it was something like 550. 550 for a four bedroom house. But there wasn't any five bedroom houses on the market. And the, the media room was just such a good spot for, for a Decent bedroom. The seller called council double checked it. They just wanted to make sure it was big enough, it wasn't going to be like a, you know, 1.5 by 1.5 size bedroom. They said there was, you weren't sort of doing anything wrong by then. We advertised it as a five bedroom and that place ended up getting 680 because it sold as a five bedroom. I was very clear on my disclosures that media room or fifth bedroom, which we've just done with a property in Southern river, there's a study there, it's a five bedroom house. It also has a study, you can make it a six. [00:08:00] Speaker B: But that was my argument is what you've done is. Correct. Is where you actually call the council and get it reallocated. [00:08:06] Speaker C: Yeah, correct. [00:08:07] Speaker B: That was actually, that was what I told him as well. Because let's be frank, you built a one bedroom. [00:08:13] Speaker C: Yeah. It's not a complicated price, it's not hard. [00:08:16] Speaker B: Correct. But what I was trying to tell him was, you know, you built a one bedroom, now you're trying to pass it as a two bedroom. Why? Because there's a big difference in the price. Right. [00:08:25] Speaker C: Well, when you're looking at RP data, you're looking at comparables. If you, if you're looking at a three bedroom house, four bedroom house or five bedroom house, say the algorithm is going to search for four bedroom houses and compare it to that. [00:08:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:39] Speaker C: And then when you go up in a bedroom you go into another price bracket. Correct. [00:08:43] Speaker B: Exactly right. [00:08:44] Speaker C: It makes a big difference. [00:08:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:45] Speaker C: You know, it's just a matter of whether your buyer will, you know, will accept that. It, it is a second. [00:08:50] Speaker B: Yeah. 100. [00:08:51] Speaker C: It can't be a storeroom. [00:08:52] Speaker B: You must disclose it though. That's what I was trying to say. You know, you have to make sure that it's being disclosed. You can't just say no, it is a bedroom. Just because I put a room, it can fit a bed in there, doesn't make it a room. [00:09:02] Speaker C: You know, just be clear with your disclosure. Correct. And you can't go your residential approval anyway. You can't turn like a five bedroom, sorry a three bedroom house into an eight bedroom house and just say this has got eight bedrooms, you know that that needs a whole other approval. [00:09:17] Speaker B: So does the granny flat falls under that as well? Does it follow the granny flat also falls under that location as well? [00:09:24] Speaker C: Yeah. As long as you don't accept the five bedrooms, you can have studies, you can have rumpus rooms. You get creative with what you call the other Rooms, as long as you don't have five bedrooms. More than five bedrooms on the approval. [00:09:35] Speaker B: Interesting. Excellent. All right, so we're going to have Andrew come in in a bit. Yeah, our mortgage broker. So we've got quite a few mortgage brokers lined up for this show. [00:09:47] Speaker C: Oh, they're good to talk to 100%. [00:09:49] Speaker B: I think it's very good. Like him, he, he mentors other mortgage brokers as well and currently he's working in Wisdom Loren. So that's good. Group with. I love property if you know who they are. So they are Investment group with Dipna Bohot. Don't know if you know them but anyway they, they train investors to go out and look for investment properties so they've got a course and everything. I've been to one of their talks down in Fremantle at one point. Quite interesting, Very interesting. So they've got a mortgage broking arm which is called Wisdom Loan and Andrew is part of that group. So it'd be interesting to have a chat. So the reason I was having a chat with him and we were talking about what's, you know, when you're an investor and you're looking to take out loans, you're not just looking at normal loans anymore, you know, it's an investment loan. It's an investment loan and what comes with it. Because we're always looking for the best rate, what's the cheapest, you know, the lowest interest rate, what's the, what else can we get out there? But it's normally for either residential buyers or someone who just owns one or two investment properties. But once you start owning a lot of investment properties, that's when you need to start getting creative with your. [00:11:09] Speaker C: Are you talking about cross collateralization? [00:11:11] Speaker B: Cross collateralization is something we want to avoid. [00:11:15] Speaker C: Say it quickly three times. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Yeah, but what I'm saying is, you know, there's lots of options out there and you really need someone who knows the investment space to be able to guide you and do that loan for. [00:11:28] Speaker C: You because you can really tie these things up pretty tightly. It can be very complicated how they, how they use multiple properties to create an investment loan. [00:11:37] Speaker B: Correct. I think that that's another thing that I was doing today. You know, like if you currently in the property market, you know, when you first buy your property you have to save up. Right. So you're saving up that 20%, your hard earned 20%. You slog you, you know, with all your blood, sweat and tears and finally you buy the property. [00:11:56] Speaker C: So the second one is it, that's. [00:11:58] Speaker B: Not the Case with the second one that's right now is how do we use the equity to go on to buy multiples after that, you know, you don't have to save as much as you did for your first one in order to go and get your second and third one. [00:12:11] Speaker C: It just becomes a matter. So you might have the equity in there to cover your deposit or your deposit bond, but you just have to make sure that you can afford the repayments across the gross line. [00:12:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's where one of those methods where they say cross collide, cross cross collateralization. Yes. You know, you'd have as an investment. [00:12:32] Speaker C: Like you need a tenant and that other income and that, that helps your serviceability and you put your equity and it comes together quite nicely. [00:12:41] Speaker B: It does. [00:12:42] Speaker C: Provided you can afford repayment. A lot of people can go under with these, these types of loans because it's like a domino effect. [00:12:48] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:12:49] Speaker C: You know, because everything's connected to each other. If one thing sort of tips over the whole, all the dominoes fall over. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:56] Speaker C: So you need a good financial planner. You just need to be, you know, quite diligent and responsible with how you handle your, your loans. [00:13:02] Speaker B: Yes, exactly right. [00:13:03] Speaker C: So it'd be good to have a chat to this guy. [00:13:06] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:06] Speaker C: We need mortgage, mortgage brokers at the moment. Everybody needs a mortgage broker. Because if you're turning up to a home open and want to buy a house, you better be pre approved. [00:13:15] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I get that a lot recently. Especially now. As you can see, there's only what, 3,600 properties on the market, isn't it? Everyone's fighting over that one property that's available at the moment. As you know, I'm currently roaming Morley a lot. Right. [00:13:28] Speaker C: So you know what? You should just leave PR waters, mate. You should go and move to Morley. [00:13:32] Speaker B: Hey, I actually almost. There was one house that really felt. Love it. You know, they say you shouldn't get emotionally attached, but I really love this house. That's one there that I really liked and I was contemplating should I, should I not? But anyway, honestly, I've never heard a. [00:13:47] Speaker C: Buyer'S agent talk about Morley so much. You love your Morley? [00:13:51] Speaker B: No, it's a nice area. [00:13:52] Speaker C: No, it is actually not bad. And there's. There's a lot you can do with the properties there, isn't there? [00:13:56] Speaker B: Oh yeah, it's got that. [00:13:57] Speaker C: The subdividable. Is that right? [00:13:59] Speaker A: Yes, because it's. [00:14:00] Speaker B: They're all big lands, obviously, and you know, they are 25 throughout the whole thing. So everything can be subdivided as long as it's minimum 700 square meters. [00:14:11] Speaker C: So 700 square meters can give you two titles, two lots. How big are those lots? A minimum 350. 350? [00:14:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So as long as you've got 700 square meters, you can subdivide it. [00:14:23] Speaker C: So the ideal scenario there is to find a house that's well positioned in the front right or front door left corner of the blog. That'll give you a good battle axe. And 350. Just remind me the. The driveway that's included in the. In the. The amount of square meterage for the rear block. [00:14:39] Speaker B: Yep. [00:14:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. You get a bit shorter on the back. On the back lot. But still, it's more than what people. I mean, selling bloody 220s and 230s up at Alkamos, which is a, you know, highly sought after. It's. It's made the. The top 10 again. Yeah, just this, this new planning. These new planning methods where you're just sitting on very small. [00:15:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I think, as you know, as you can see, the land is hardly any approvals at the moment, isn't it? And then GON is going through this big change where they've massively changed the hard codes as well. And that's just to get all this redevelopment happening. And Gosner is being a very old area. We've actually been to some of the properties there. I don't. [00:15:25] Speaker C: Sold some. Yeah. Built in the 60s, built in the 50s. [00:15:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And they've not had any renovations or anything done to it. [00:15:32] Speaker C: So it's still. [00:15:34] Speaker B: Still as it is. You know, there was a property that went for the final inspection just two weeks ago. I don't know how, but that was. An older person was living there for all his life. You know, it was completely run down. There was like water leaking at the back and this one all had like a separate. Like a laundry. Separate to the house. It's outside of the house and they've got their own Dani outside as well, you know, the kind of thing. So it's quite a very old way of doing it, obviously. And that's why I think that, you know, the whole area has this massive rezoning so it can all come in and redevelop, mix smaller lots. [00:16:10] Speaker C: A lot of councils are looking at this and they're at different stages of looking or how to handle population density for the future. My understanding is that it's cheaper to increase your density than it is to spread out and create new infrastructure. So it's a natural progression of a growing population. Especially what we had what, 86,000 new West Australians last year. If that trend continues, we've either got to spread out or live on top of each other. I dare say within the next say 30 years the Perth skyline will look very different. At the moment it's still quite flat. Yep, still quite flat. But I was very surprised, Josh, when I went back to Sydney after about off 15 years just looking across, I got, I got into a vantage point looking over the city and there was a lot of just high rise, sort of not high rise. It was medium to high density developments everywhere I looked in every direction. You know, I dare say you'll see a lot more of that in Perth over the years. We're spreading, spreading north and we've discussed that many times. But the start of it's these, these subdivisions, the 100. [00:17:23] Speaker B: All right, let's go into a little bit of a break, shall we Carlos? [00:17:26] Speaker C: Yeah. And when we come back at about 4 o' clock we should have our guest here. [00:17:30] Speaker B: Yes. All right. You're listening to the Perth Property Bros with Josh and Carlos and you're back with the Perth Property Bros with Josh and Carlos because Josh is in the driver's seat. [00:17:42] Speaker A: Seat. [00:17:42] Speaker C: Oh, you like to stand me up, don't you? [00:17:44] Speaker B: There you go. [00:17:44] Speaker C: So it becomes the Carlos and Josh Show Finally. After 4:30. [00:17:48] Speaker B: After 4:30 that's when we, we take care of things. Oh well I'm not here next week so you can run the show all you like. [00:17:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll be here with Carly. [00:17:55] Speaker B: There you go. [00:17:56] Speaker C: Carly Beasley after conveyance she's going to. [00:17:58] Speaker B: Be subbing for you with a Carly and Carlos show. [00:18:04] Speaker C: The Carlos and Carly show. I'm sure she'll make it. The Carly and Carlos show or the. [00:18:09] Speaker B: Carly and Carly show. [00:18:10] Speaker C: Yeah, no, it's going to be a good show. She's quite good on the radio and I've actually arranged a value, another value to come in. [00:18:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I saw that this week here. [00:18:19] Speaker C: To talk to us. So it's going to be very interesting. She's been in the game for 50 years. [00:18:23] Speaker B: 50. [00:18:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:25] Speaker B: Wow. [00:18:25] Speaker C: Isn't that. Yeah. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Oh, it should be comparable to kran specializing in Mandra. [00:18:29] Speaker C: So it'll be an interesting conversation with her. [00:18:32] Speaker B: Nice. [00:18:32] Speaker C: Jenny the fairy, her name. [00:18:35] Speaker B: Oh wow. Yeah, nice. Who is she with? [00:18:38] Speaker C: She's an independent. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Independent? [00:18:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Jj The Fair and Co property valuers. [00:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:43] Speaker C: So yeah. So I was just going to be. Think it's going to be an interesting dynamic with Carly. As I said, I'm an agent. Jenny. The value and and the real estate agent, of course. Yeah. And we've got a mortgage broker on today. [00:18:56] Speaker B: We have. We've got Andrew Patterson today. So Andrew is a bit of a funny one. I've met him a year and a half ago, I think, and we had a brief chat and, you know, after. After a while I reached out again. I was like, hey, Andrew, how are you, man? And it's like, oh, Josh, by the way, I've retired. Retired and I've retired. Good luck with everything. Anyway, my daughter bought over the business and, you know, good luck. Maybe I'll introduce you to my daughter and stuff and you can work together. And then. And a few months later, I got a message like, oh, Josh, by the way, I've got some clients to introduce you. I was like, aren't you retired? [00:19:35] Speaker C: I thought you retired. [00:19:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought you retired. Did you give this big speech that you retired and it was like, I. [00:19:41] Speaker C: Bet you got bored. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Oh, he got bored. Best part was he didn't even go back to his company. He just started something else and went down that road. But he's been in the game for a long time and I think that's why I wanted to bring him in. He's been in the game for a long time. He mentors other mortgage brokers as well. [00:19:58] Speaker C: These are the guys we want to talk to. Yes, because these are the guys that have been around. It's not just about what they do day to day, it's about what they know, where they've been and they've seen things change over time. That's why I'm so keen to chat to Jenny next week, see what she's seen in the property market for the last 50 years in Perth. [00:20:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, quite interesting. [00:20:21] Speaker C: It's a bit older than me, Josh. I don't know about you. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, It'll be an interesting chat, I think. Yeah. [00:20:30] Speaker C: Yeah, that's going to be good, mate. Yeah. These mortgage brokers or anybody that they retire, they get bored. They've been doing what they know for so long. And like, even our financial planner, Ian von Berg, he's approaching retirement. He's been talking about better openly, but he knows he needs to keep his mind busy. So, I mean, you're coming to the Rotary Club of Rockingham tonight. So Ian, he's coming along too, because he's planning what's going to happen post retirement. So I said to him, mate, with how busy you are and how your mind works, you need to become a professional Rotarian. So that's what the introduction we're doing tonight, right after we. Good. [00:21:11] Speaker B: Well, you've been banging on about Rotary all the while, so let's have a. [00:21:14] Speaker C: Oh, I believe in it, Josh. There's. It's such a good organization. It brings together such amazing people and you know, I get to have dinner with them and I get introduced to other incredible people around Perth and we're like an international family, I guess. [00:21:30] Speaker B: How many chapters are there? [00:21:32] Speaker C: Chapters. [00:21:34] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [00:21:35] Speaker C: Clubs. They're called clubs. It's all the same really, whether it's a chapter or a club or whatever. I think around Perth there's about 3,35. It's quite different. Yeah. And the numbers were something around the 3000. In Perth. In Perth, yeah. So then even just the other morning, I went over to Scarborough to the Rotary Club of Scarborough. I was invited over there and I got to meet those. Those people there. Great group, actually. Darren. Darren Meekins. He's the president of that club. [00:22:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:22:07] Speaker C: Yeah, he's. He's already been on IPL radio as a call in. He was actually on. On Tris's show. [00:22:15] Speaker B: Nice. [00:22:15] Speaker C: But he'd be another great one to. To bring on the show because he's a property value developer, of course. Does a lot of land developments. Nice land sales and huge volumes. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Let's get him in. [00:22:28] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, no, we'll get him to call in or come in. He's based up in Yanchip, so look, we know some amazing people. That's what I'm getting at. [00:22:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:36] Speaker C: Yes, we know some amazing professionals. We've got lists, as long as there are of who we can bring in and add value to the show and talk property. [00:22:47] Speaker B: Actually, since you brought up development, I was reading this interesting article today. Do you want to have a bit of listen to it? [00:22:53] Speaker C: Let's do it. [00:22:54] Speaker B: So in WA, we have less than 620 title lots for sale. [00:23:00] Speaker C: Okay. [00:23:01] Speaker B: Which is significantly lower than 11,200 lots that was sold last year. [00:23:06] Speaker C: We're talking about vacant land. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Vacant land. [00:23:08] Speaker C: You can build a house. [00:23:09] Speaker B: Title lots for sale. [00:23:10] Speaker C: Residential title lots. Yep. [00:23:12] Speaker B: So we only have 620 from 11,200 last year in WA alone. [00:23:17] Speaker C: 11,000 down to 620. Wow. [00:23:22] Speaker B: Southeast Queensland. So 11,000 lots in 2024. Yeah, but there are only 18 new lots for sale across eight growth corridors. Sydney saw a 32% increase in land sales in 2024. But on market, supply has decreased by more than 40% year on year. Melbourne's demand for land remains soft with sales down 55% since 2023. But visible lot supply has halved since 2021. Nationally, there's only 18 weeks of supply of title lots for sale. [00:24:02] Speaker C: Oh, my goodness. [00:24:03] Speaker B: Dropping to under 12 weeks when Melbourne is excluded. The bottlenecks is availability of land ready for building. [00:24:13] Speaker C: So what's the delay here? What's the issue here? Is it, is it a planning issue where land, not enough land is being released or where, when we're trying to redevelop rural land to, to become lots? It's a process. It takes some time. [00:24:30] Speaker B: It takes a long. Like remember the one in, you know, 3B, 3B. The one next to it is Kalia. Kalia took 10 years for it to get an approval to be built, to develop. So it took 10 years for anything to happen. [00:24:44] Speaker C: Well, there's just so much involved. [00:24:46] Speaker B: So much involved. That's right. So, so if something, let's say you find a land today, you go into, all right, we want to develop this land now, let's say Stockland or whoever takes over and then they go and put in the approvals. I mean, you're looking at forecasted 10 years later. [00:24:59] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. [00:25:00] Speaker B: So if something, you look at this year, 2025, that means you're looking at 2035 before it's actually been released. [00:25:06] Speaker C: So they're planning for the changes over time servicing loans. [00:25:11] Speaker B: Correct. And I believe I remember, if I'm not mistaken, I think during the course covet period, something we had a freeze in approvals or something like that. I, I can't recall, I can't, I can't actually put it, but I remember reading something like that. So if they put a freeze on that and they weren't actually putting out land or approving or anything like that, this, there will be a big backlog now. [00:25:33] Speaker C: Big delay. [00:25:33] Speaker B: It's going to be a very big delay. [00:25:35] Speaker C: And then the final titling process. Correct. Takes a bit of time to come through again. There's house and land packages out there that, you know, they try to put together, the building reps put together, but sometimes their lots aren't even titled. They're close. They give you an eta. You know, it'll be September or November or something. But it just, it really holds everything up. [00:25:56] Speaker B: It does. But that's very interesting. Like I was just reading just before coming in here and I was like, I might really look into this a little bit, have a bit of a read through it and see what's actually happening. [00:26:06] Speaker C: Well, I've got some, some title titled land available and another stage, stage three over the back of Helena Valley that's coming on. They're, they're all titled as well. So it's just a, it's, it's interesting because those prices are pushing high, Josh. I mean, you're looking at about $440,000 for a block of land. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Wow. [00:26:25] Speaker C: It's nothing special. It's pretty far away from, from Perth. [00:26:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:30] Speaker C: We're calling it the, the tree change. We've created a website actually, called mytreechange.net to direct people to that land estate. And, yeah, it's just, it's just so interesting how much these prices are pushing because it affects the, the value of the, the overall build. So for a bare minimum basic house, you're looking about 850,000. For something decent, you're looking a mil, just over a mil. And then the sky's the limit thereafter. You want to go two story. You want to go with the fancy fixtures and finish finishings. It's quite up there. [00:27:04] Speaker B: It is, it is. [00:27:06] Speaker C: These prices have doubled in the last few years for, for a tighter block of land. [00:27:10] Speaker B: So you've managed to sell all your earlier stages. [00:27:12] Speaker C: Right. Stage one's gone, two are gone. We've got one unconditional this week. [00:27:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:18] Speaker C: And I've got four left in the current stage. [00:27:21] Speaker B: Nice. [00:27:22] Speaker C: There'll be another eight in stage three. Yeah. But, you know, speaking about these approvals and complications, some of those lots, like I said, they're titled but they're, they're in the next stage. They've had Aboriginal heritage issues and that's, that's just been a huge process to get through to get the sites inspected and to get a final sign off and an enormous amount of money as well. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:47] Speaker C: All of that appears on the interest reports. It can affect people's, what people can do with those lots over time. [00:27:57] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:27:58] Speaker C: But it's very difficult, very difficult to get those things through, especially if an area, a block of land is earmarked. I mean, you might not know that initially when you find a block of land, like you say, to go back and change its use and redevelop it to, lots of the prices can really, really drag out. [00:28:17] Speaker B: That's why I used to wonder, right, Like, I used to wonder, why does it take 10 years to actually approve a development site, Right. It's because of this. It takes a long time. There's so many things involved. It's not just, you know, here's a piece of land, go ahead. No, it's. Even before they do the works, you've got the environmental, you've Got the animals, you know, they have to do all those type of research. [00:28:41] Speaker C: They do studies like that. Yeah, yeah. In case there's anything there that, that they need to move. Like some sort of an animal that need, that can. Needs to be moved or others that. That can't move. You know, we were dealing with one years ago, just. I don't remember the name of it, but they found a. There was a moth. Moth with pink spots on its. On its wings, really. And it was on one bush. [00:29:07] Speaker B: Okay. [00:29:09] Speaker C: And they had to plan around it. There was a road going through initially, right through a portion of land and they actually had to draw the road around this section like a dog leg and then back again through the, through the lot. It was quite amazing. The owners were not happy because it cost them a lot more money. Obviously you can't do it, but they said they should have bulldozed just the whole area. But, you know, they found it and they have to treat it seriously. So there's environmental, there's fauna, then there's Aboriginal heritage. Then you're looking at suitability of land, especially when you're dealing with swampy areas. I mean, Darren and Meekins and I'd been working on 144 lots over there in Hilbert and that that area is all swampy. So they have to bring masses and masses of sand in. [00:29:57] Speaker B: Yep. [00:29:58] Speaker C: To compact and settle and compact again to get it right. [00:30:03] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:30:04] Speaker C: So there's a lot more to it. It's not just a matter of buying a block of land and cutting it up and off you go. You've made a lot of money. You need to really have the horsepower to see a development through. In fact, over the years I've seen developments that they get to the final stages where they're selling and the developers, actually, the estates go under administration because it's just taken so long and over the years they've been paying interest on those loans that they have to have developed initially. So, yeah, you really need the horsepower behind you to do it. [00:30:36] Speaker B: All right. All right, let's go into a little bit of a break first and then we come back and we'll talk more about property on the Perth and Josh Show. [00:30:44] Speaker C: The Carlos and Josh Show. [00:30:48] Speaker A: The best music from the 60s to today. IPL radio. [00:30:53] Speaker B: And we're back with the Perk Puppy Bros. And you were listening to Josh and Carlos only on IPL Radio. Yes, we are so welcome here. Andrew Patterson, welcome, man, to the store. [00:31:05] Speaker A: Thanks, Josh. Thanks, Carlos. Nice to meet you both. [00:31:08] Speaker B: Yes. [00:31:09] Speaker C: So Andrew Patterson, a seasoned finance broker with over 21 years experience who not only helps clients secure great loans, but also mentors new brokers through Wisdom Loans, a company tied to the I Love real estate platform. And I love real estate too, mate, so. Well, that's good. [00:31:28] Speaker A: I'm glad. I think everyone loves real estate in Australia. [00:31:31] Speaker B: Everyone. [00:31:31] Speaker C: Everybody's got an opinion or a comment. [00:31:34] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:31:35] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. [00:31:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:36] Speaker C: So welcome. [00:31:37] Speaker A: Thank you very much. Welcome. [00:31:40] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I was just telling Carlos a little bit of that story about you trying to retire, but somehow or other you just came back, back, pop back right up and start a new something, started a new venture, mentoring others. I think you took on more than before, didn't you? [00:31:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. I think I've gone a little bit crazy. [00:31:57] Speaker B: So, yeah. [00:31:57] Speaker C: Oh, you're going to say you're going to keep busy in your retirement. I was just talking to our scripture during the break and he says he's never been busier in retirement. [00:32:07] Speaker A: I don't know if that's a good thing or not, Carlos. [00:32:09] Speaker B: All right. I think it's good to keep yourself busy. It keeps the mind engaged. [00:32:14] Speaker C: 100 then you've got a lot of knowledge and experience, which I said to him, it's worth passing on. [00:32:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:19] Speaker C: Especially when you're mentoring other brokers. Well, what does that look like, mentoring other brokers? [00:32:23] Speaker A: Well, I've just sort of started that maybe three or four months ago when I had my previous brokerage, which I sold last year. Over the years, I employed a number of brokers and, you know, trained them up and hopefully set them on the path success. So I sort of thought, well, I'd like to do that a little bit more. So I've been getting on LinkedIn and writing a few articles about various aspects of finance broking and. [00:32:49] Speaker C: Great. [00:32:50] Speaker A: Just sort of trying to disseminate my knowledge to hopefully people who find what I write and what I talk about a little bit useful. [00:32:59] Speaker C: How interesting. Congratulations. [00:33:01] Speaker A: Thanks for that. [00:33:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, you should follow him on LinkedIn. There's lots of very good information. Information on that. [00:33:06] Speaker C: Very good. Now, you know I'm not good with LinkedIn. Yeah, I need to be. You're ahead of the game if you're on LinkedIn. [00:33:14] Speaker A: Well, yeah, it does take, as Josh knows, it takes a bit of time and effort and a bit of consistency. You sort of only get results on LinkedIn if you post consistently. [00:33:23] Speaker C: I know. This is the thing. I've had a few chats to, to the web guys about this sort of thing because, you know, even today, you know, you're coming on the Show I posted on my Facebook page, which a lot of my friends and networks are on there saying that you're coming on tune in. Here's the link. And Josh did as well. But yeah, you've got to keep it up with Instagram. Then there's the LinkedIn and all these platforms where you've got to keep doubling up. Either need a program to help you post or you need a va like Josh. [00:33:54] Speaker B: Josh's va. You have to get on in it. Yeah. Carlos, you're in between us. You know, I'm the young one, he's the older one and you're in between us and you're still not doing anything about it. Come on, no excuses there. [00:34:05] Speaker A: I think the best thing to do, Carlos, is to pick one platform. [00:34:09] Speaker C: I did Facebook. [00:34:10] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. [00:34:11] Speaker C: And people don't like that. You need to be on this, you need to be on that. I'm just trying to manage one. [00:34:16] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. One's enough. I think I just do LinkedIn, I think. [00:34:21] Speaker C: So that's where people interact with most. Oh, yeah. [00:34:24] Speaker B: But yes, Yeah. [00:34:27] Speaker A: I mean, LinkedIn's for business and you know, if you are a real estate agent, it's a great platform. Whereas Facebook's a bit more social. Bit more. [00:34:36] Speaker C: It's a bit more social. It's a bit like, you know, look what we're doing, we're having fun together or whatever, whatever. I had a chat to a LinkedIn mentor a few years ago and just asking, you know, so look, I'm a selling point agent, I'm looking to connect with sellers, so how can I use LinkedIn for that? And they were sort of saying that it's really good for employees of businesses. So I own my business. But if you're an employee, you to have your sort of open, open resume there. And when you can get headhunted by agencies or employers that look at your resume and say, hey, look, I want to offer this person a job. So I still haven't found the happy medium. [00:35:15] Speaker A: Yeah, look, I mean, in your case, you'd be wanting to sort of put some testimonials on there and client stories and things like that and, and tell people what you want to do, what's the sorts of things that you do and the ways that you can help them, you know, if you do that. [00:35:33] Speaker C: The way to do it, you reckon? [00:35:34] Speaker A: Yeah, two or three times a week. And you'll find after a while you will build your followers up pretty quickly. [00:35:40] Speaker C: Because, you know, Facebook has its limitations. It tends to be a very social thing and people need to generally know you before they'll sort of let you into their Facebook because they might have. It might be a more personal thing where they've got their family and their kids on there. Whatever, whatever. And when we do our networking groups and events and people start sort of changing over business cards, the question is, what's your LinkedIn? So that's like, it's a safe way to say, this is how I can connect with you without getting into the personal side of. [00:36:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:10] Speaker C: Of each other's lives. So, yeah, that's. That's as far as I've gotten with it. [00:36:16] Speaker B: Now. Did you see how Andrew did the mentorship there? [00:36:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I was watching it. [00:36:20] Speaker B: There you go. So, yeah, his calm demeanor. [00:36:23] Speaker C: Yeah, it just took control of the topic. I thought, yeah, this man knows what he's doing. [00:36:29] Speaker B: See? [00:36:30] Speaker A: Oh, thanks, Carlos. But, yeah, look, look, I highly recommend you get onto LinkedIn a bit more and do some regular posting and you'll be pretty much surprised at the results. [00:36:40] Speaker C: Very good. I will certainly do that. I do have a profile. It is set up. My web guy set it up. So it was Sasha, our social guy, he set it up. So the posting side I need to get around to. [00:36:50] Speaker A: Yeah, Josh uses it really well. [00:36:52] Speaker C: I know Josh is very good. [00:36:53] Speaker A: He's very good at it. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Thank you. All right, let's go back to a little bit about you, Andrew, tell us a little bit about when I first started. Met you. Obviously you've got your own company just before you sold it. And I remember I reached out to him a second time or third, I think, and he was like, oh, Josh, by the way, I retired. Feel free to contact my daughter. She's bought over the business and good luck. And a few months later, like, Josh, I've got some referrals for you. I was like, what? What do you mean? I thought you were gone. And here he's back again mentoring others and with. I love real estate. So give us a little bit about the journey, man. Tell us a little bit about that experience, where you are today. [00:37:36] Speaker A: So I've been a finance broker for 21 years. Started in the industry in 2004. Started with Aussie Home Loans, worked there for about three years, and then went out and had a partnership for two years and then started. Started my own business, which is called Sea Finance. Shameless Plug, because they're still going very strong. Started that business in 2008. Probably not the best time because you remember back then we had the gfc, so it was sort of interesting times. But, you know, as you find when you go through life, you just got to have a bit of courage every now and then and, and go for it. So it worked out really well. Read that business until 2024. Sold it to my daughter. It's grown to, it employs five people. It's, it's, it's grown really well. So. And over that time I had a couple of brokers come through and, and help train them up and all that sort of thing. So retired. I got bored fairly quickly and decided to sort of come back in the industry, not as a business owner. And looked around for an opportunity and Wisdom Loans came up. Now Wisdom Loans are the lending arm of a large professional investment property investment training company called I Love Real Estate. Diphther Boholt is the owner and is quite well known. She's been around a lot, a long time and that company's been going for well over 30 years. So. And they offer fantastic education for people who are interested in getting involved in property investing, building their wealth, earning passive income, all those fabulous things that we hear lots and lots about. [00:39:32] Speaker C: So like, like they're acting like as financial planners or they're acting as just, just purely education. [00:39:38] Speaker A: Carlos. [00:39:39] Speaker C: Just teaching. [00:39:39] Speaker A: Yeah, just teaching. And, and like I say they're, they're big thing. They're a very ethical based company. There's no selling of real of property to students. They need to learn the skills to go out and research and find their own properties. Hence fantastic buyer's agents like Josh come into play and go out and talk to real estate agents like yourself, source their own property or, or get professional help and build their property portfolio. [00:40:10] Speaker C: Absolutely brilliant. [00:40:11] Speaker A: With a lot of assistance from that company. They had mentors and coaches and all those sorts of things. [00:40:17] Speaker C: Yeah, that's amazing. Just be careful with the compliments to Josh because his head starts getting bigger and bigger. Headphones pop off. [00:40:27] Speaker B: Does it? [00:40:28] Speaker C: This is how we have to gang up with him. [00:40:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:30] Speaker A: All right, well I'll reel it back. [00:40:35] Speaker B: Soon. You'll see which side it's on, man. [00:40:38] Speaker C: So are you doing some, you're doing the, the mentoring for them? So you're running classes or you're doing. [00:40:43] Speaker A: No, no, no, purely as we've had our prior discussion, posting sort of items on LinkedIn three times a week I post things like lead generation, which you know, when you're starting out, doesn't matter what business you're in. But in mortgage broking, for example, the hardest part is getting customers, getting your first, especially getting your first leads. So I try and keep it really simple, post a lot about lead generation, you know, how to get those customers, how to look after them, what to do when you get them. But like I said, trying to keep it really simple. Just trying to teach people ways to get leads without spending up a lot of money. [00:41:26] Speaker C: That's amazing. It wouldn't be an easy job. Mortgage broker. I mean, the mortgage brokers I've spoken to, there's a big part of the job where they're going back and forth, back and forth between applicants and lenders. The more lenders, the more sort of contact in there. Everyone's chasing another piece of information. [00:41:44] Speaker A: Yep. [00:41:45] Speaker C: So I would, you know, so that would, that would be a pretty difficult job, especially when you're trying to network on top of that. [00:41:50] Speaker A: Yep. [00:41:51] Speaker C: And grow your business when you're just bogged down in back and forth. Yep. You know, and sometimes, sometimes you do all the work, do all the application process, do all the back and forth and they might find an issue on the person's credit file. It's going to be in. It's not going to work at all. Or just the line just isn't going to work and it's not going to be a client for you. [00:42:08] Speaker A: Yep. [00:42:09] Speaker C: So, yeah, hats off to mortgage brokers. That is. That wouldn't be easy. [00:42:13] Speaker A: No, it's not. But it's. I mean, it's no different to real estate agents and buyer's agents, you know, trying to find properties and all the rest of it's not easy. So, you know, those, those industries have a lot of synthesis. You know, they come together pretty well. But yeah, broking has its special challenges and lots. You know, it's an easy industry to get into, but it's not an easy industry to make a success of, so. [00:42:40] Speaker C: Because then there's the clawbacks. [00:42:42] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, we forget the clawbacks. Yes. [00:42:46] Speaker C: So unfair. [00:42:47] Speaker A: Our friends, the banks. I won't say any more about them. And they're a necessary evil. But yeah, there's some things there that when people get into the industry and they find out it's, you know, mind blowing. [00:42:59] Speaker C: Yeah. It's too deep in. Before you. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Well, you do a lot of work and then 18 months later, the commission that year gets clawed back. Not a lot of fun. [00:43:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So tell us a little bit. So obviously you work with a lot of investors. I was just talking to Carlos today and how we want to try and navigate that space. Right. So, you know, as investment gets complicated. Yes. When you have one or two, it's just a straightforward. Or, you know, or banks would like to put a. What a Cross collateralization and be done with it. But obviously as you have 3, 4, 5, 10, 20, it starts getting complicated. Right. And obviously, yeah, and you definitely need a good mortgage broker who's really good in the investment space, who knows his stuff. You're able to share a little bit about some strategies there or, you know, what are some of the interesting things, things you would do. Like obviously cross collateralization, we. Something we will not look at. No. You know, so it can be a. [00:44:06] Speaker A: You know, it's one of those things you, you may have to do it, given some situations, but generally you'd like to say to a club, someone who's building a portfolio, try and keep it all standalone. [00:44:20] Speaker C: Don't cross collateralize dominoes every time you. [00:44:25] Speaker A: The legal implications if something goes wrong can be, you know, can be quite difficult. So sometimes you have to do it. But generally a good mortgage broker will try to just not cross collateralize properties, make them all standalone. But, you know, the problem with building a property portfolio is the more you get, the more it affects your serviceability, of course. So it's easy to buy one property, but as you buy more, it can get quite difficult. And then the second thing you've got to think about is asset protection. So do you buy properties in your individual name or do you set up companies, slash trusts to buy them in? So yeah, as you build a portfolio, it's, it's like building a business. It, it takes time and there's a lot of, there's a lot of different gears impacting on the machine that you're trying to build. So yeah, I mean, two things you've got to always keep an eye on is your serviceability. [00:45:37] Speaker C: Yeah, we did mention that earlier, didn't we? [00:45:39] Speaker A: And what structure are you going to buy your investment properties in? Try not to buy them in your own name. Try and create properties companies trust to do that in. [00:45:50] Speaker C: Because it's expensive to try to change that later, isn't it? [00:45:52] Speaker A: Oh yeah. Our friends at WA Revenue department, here's. [00:45:57] Speaker C: Another stamp duty for us. [00:45:59] Speaker A: Yes, exactly Right. So you know this. And that leads to the third thing, right from the beginning, when you're thinking of building a property portfolio, get good advice and deal with good agents, buyers agents, good mortgage brokers, good settlement agents, build a team if you like. So if you can do that, then you'll do well. [00:46:26] Speaker C: That sounds absolutely right. Especially those professions that you mentioned, because we work closest together, don't we? [00:46:32] Speaker A: Exactly. And property, a lot of people like to buy investment property, so it looks good, but there can be A number of pitfalls that you just got to be aware of and you know, if you get some good education, that helps and then if you build a good team, that'll help you do well on your property investment journey. [00:46:51] Speaker C: Absolutely brilliant. Wow. Sounds very good to me. Can you tell you mentor me through this process? [00:47:02] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:47:04] Speaker B: All right, well, I guess let's dive into it a little bit. So, difference between someone buying their own home and an investor. What's those different loans available or what are we looking at? [00:47:15] Speaker A: Well, you know, buying your own principal, what they call your principal place of residence, to, to be technical, you know, doing both things. There's a whole wide range of lenders that will lend you money. Basically it will depend on what your situation is. So as you guys know, everyone's circumstances are different. So you have a client come to you, you've got, you know, you meet them and find out their personal circumstances and what, how much they earn, all their financial background and that will determine what lender you go to, that they may have some preference about what sort of loan they want. You know, variable, fixed, have an offset account. There's a whole lot different, a whole range of different ways you can structure your loan for buying your own property. With investors, there's a couple of more things come into play and that is making sure that they're able to build a portfolio. So you want to make sure you're giving them a loan product that they can grow a portfolio with. The loan product after a number of years may not be suitable. So then you need to change that. [00:48:36] Speaker C: So this is choosing whether it's a variable, it's fixed, there's not going to be too many exit fees if they choose to sell it or refinance. And you can. Exactly, yeah. And this can be significant factors. [00:48:46] Speaker A: Exactly. Looking a bit further down the track. So that's, I think that's critical and that's the big difference what a mortgage broker has to do when they're dealing with a client who wants to buy their own property or a client who wants to buy an investment property. [00:49:02] Speaker C: Because we deal with investors that their intention is to flip in 12 months, that's it. They're going to go in, renovate, get a tenant in there, make it look amazing and try to make some money after tax and all the bits and pieces. So something like a five year fixed term wouldn't be suitable for. [00:49:18] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:49:19] Speaker C: Somebody that wants to pay their loan down for another, another vision that they have that might be fantastic. [00:49:25] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, there's, there's A huge number of lenders on, on the panel of lenders I deal with, we've got 30, 40 different lenders. So but there's, you know, in Australia now, there's, there's hundreds of different lenders who will lend for whole, totally different scenarios. And a lot of those scenarios you couldn't get a loan for five or 10 years ago. [00:49:50] Speaker C: I know, I was just about to say that I keep finding these people across my path that they've had some sort of a credit issue or some sort of a misadventure venture in their lifetime to do that's affected their loan. You know, you name them, there could be enormous amounts of them. And five, 10 years ago, say 10 years ago, you would struggle. You're stuck renting or you're completely locked out of the market. Now there's lenders that will more than happy to look at yours provided you disclose adequately. They're more than just having paid a little bit of an interest rate, but it also gets you into the market again and gives you a bit of a repayment sort of history that you can use on maybe to go to a major lender down the track. [00:50:31] Speaker A: Just to give you an example, I mean, 10 years ago, someone with bad credit, very, very difficult to place. Now there's a stack of lenders, you know, so for anyone who's listening out there and does have bad credit and thinks they're never going to get a loan, well, there's probably, chances are we could probably get you a loan. So that's, that's one and part nine. [00:50:53] Speaker C: Debt agreements, they're big. A lot of people go into those. Yep. And think that they just really can't do anything. [00:50:59] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Second one is older people, you know, that's, that's becoming a big marketplace now. People over 50, people over 55, some whom have never bought a home and they think, you know, it's never going to happen. And I keep coming across stories, I keep coming across brokers who have been able to place people in that age group into a, into a loan. So. And there's lenders that will be very flexible. I, I had one, I was going to put it in the, in as a story, but I had one where these people age 60, 62 had been out of the property market for about 10 years and, and then their rental property got sold, sold from under them and they saw we're not going to be able to find a rental property. And they had a, all they had was a 5% deposit and we were able to find them a loan with LMI, 30 year loan term. Well there you go. Would never have, would never have been dreamed of being able to do that. Five to ten years. [00:52:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:03] Speaker C: 62. You said 62. So that's interesting because the lenders are generally pretty, pretty tough about the, the exit strategy, aren't they? [00:52:12] Speaker A: It's all about the exit strategy. [00:52:14] Speaker C: It's yeah, security and exit strategy. How much is your deposit and how are you going to get out if anything happens? [00:52:20] Speaker A: Yeah, so we, we were able to work out a good exit strategy for these people. There are lenders that will consider various types of exit strategies. You know the most common is, is downsizing. So that was an option for these people. So yeah, they got a 30 year loan age 62. [00:52:40] Speaker C: That was really, really surprising. That was really interesting at 62 to get a 30 year term. [00:52:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:46] Speaker B: All right. [00:52:46] Speaker A: And then if you go into the investment site, you know there's all things like borrowing in your self managed super fund and buying an investment property. There's all these. [00:52:56] Speaker C: Well we did that one day just in the last week for a commercial, put it into a self managed super fund and they were borrowing. [00:53:02] Speaker A: Yeah, there's all, there's many different roads to roam these days when you're looking at borrowing money. [00:53:09] Speaker B: All right, let's come back, let's talk more on the Perth Property Bros. And we are here with Andrew. [00:53:15] Speaker A: More music, Better Mental health only on IPL radio. [00:53:23] Speaker C: And we're back with the Perth property Bros. Carlos and Josh. Now since Carlos is taking control of. [00:53:28] Speaker A: The helm it's usually like Josh and. [00:53:31] Speaker B: Carlos shows but changed around when Carla sits on the chair then he becomes the Carlos mate. [00:53:37] Speaker C: It's always been the Carlos. [00:53:38] Speaker B: I'll give him the thought, I'll give him the. [00:53:40] Speaker C: It was actually the Carlos show. Then it became the Carlos and Josh show. Now he's trying to take it into the Josh and Carlos. [00:53:45] Speaker B: Okay, there you go. [00:53:48] Speaker C: See we've got to hang up on it because he brings other buyers, agents in here in other, other people and they, they start on me. So I'm enlisting help. [00:54:01] Speaker B: All right, well went on a bit of a break and we were talking mortgage broking. We're talking about different products out there that could possibly help investors I guess. Yeah, that's actually a good topic to go on. So as an investor what sort of products are they available for them as they you know, try to embark on this journey? [00:54:26] Speaker A: Well there's, I mean as we were saying before the break, there's a multitude of lenders these days. So for Anyone looking to borrow money as an investor, there's a massive, there's a massive variety. One really interesting thing that has risen in the last couple of years, as we talked about before, serviceability is always an issue. And when you're building a property portfolio, as an investor, you know, your serviceability can pretty much, you know, run out after two or three properties, correct? [00:55:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:55:03] Speaker A: But what we've seen in the last, especially the last five years is the rise of what they call private money. You probably seen and read about private lenders, private lenders, private credit. It has a number of terms, Carlos, but it's become really big and it's become a really big thing for property investors because as I said, your serviceability, you don't have much left by the time you've got your second or third property. So what do you do if you want to build, keep building your portfolio. [00:55:35] Speaker C: So this is dealing with lenders like PepperMoney Resimac, but they tend to hire much higher interest rates, depending on the product, but they will take on higher risk clients. [00:55:48] Speaker A: What I say to clients is that there's your traditional lenders, you know, your big four banks and your second tier lenders, and then there's your non traditional lenders. So what we've seen in the last couple of years is an explosion in these non traditional lenders. The numbers and you know, you can call them private lenders, private money. The great thing with those guys that on the positive side is that they don't care about serviceability, they only care about the security and the exit strategy. [00:56:21] Speaker C: That's right. [00:56:22] Speaker A: As we talked about before the break. [00:56:24] Speaker C: That's right. Because I need to sell that if anything goes wrong, they need to get in and get their money back. Back without losing too much more. [00:56:30] Speaker A: So, you know, they're the, they're the positives. You know, if you have a, if you've got an investment property and you can't service, there are other ways to get money for that. The downsides. There is a couple of downsides with using private money. Number one, maximum loan term is three years. Maximum, maximum. So what you need, you know, so their ideal or four investments where you're going to do something with that property. [00:56:59] Speaker B: Like a flip or. [00:57:01] Speaker A: Like a flip. Exactly. Or you do something to that property and then you're in a position to refinance it. So good example. A popular thing at the moment is constructing rooming houses. [00:57:16] Speaker C: Of course. Yeah. Boarding houses, act. [00:57:18] Speaker A: Boarding houses, room, whatever you want to call them. Had a number of talking, dealing with a number of clients who are looking at building, constructing those sorts of rooming houses. [00:57:32] Speaker C: There's government rebates. [00:57:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:34] Speaker C: Per room on these sort of things. It comes under affordable living. [00:57:37] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:57:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:39] Speaker A: So you know they, they can get construction money because at the moment traditional lenders are a little bit adverse with rooming houses. It's a new security. They're not really sure about it. But using private money, you know, you can get the, get the place built and then refinance to a traditional lender when it's built because then you've got rented, there's income coming in, boosts your serviceability. [00:58:06] Speaker C: So the last time we had one of those it was a boarding house with a. Where it was all council approved. But it was being looked at as a commercial proposition. It wasn't being looked at by a residential lender for a residential loan because it has its own insurances, its own commercial sort of insurances for the people that were living there. But they couldn't really access too much more than 50 or 60%. [00:58:31] Speaker A: Yes. The LVRs are low loan to value ratios for those. [00:58:35] Speaker C: Loan to value ratio. That was, that was what I noticed. [00:58:38] Speaker A: And that is the downside, the high interest. The interest rates are higher than traditional lenders but not, not because there's so much competition. It's not too bad. And what, what was the other thing I was going to say? And there can be some, the fees and charges that these lenders charge can be also quite high. But you know, if you're looking at the, doing a, some sort of subdivision or something where you need to, you know, you, it's a deal where you can get in and out quickly. Private money is a great option. [00:59:17] Speaker B: And that's what we were trying to talk about, isn't it? Like the having this availability of other options as well. And you know, and it's not always that you get the cheapest interest rates and you, you talked about all this cost. But again that's the cost of doing business. Right. Because you are running like a small time business kind of thing when you have multiple portfolio because you have to manage it, you have to, you know, everything that comes with it. [00:59:43] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:59:43] Speaker B: It's, it's a barrier of entry and trying to get into the market, isn't it? [00:59:48] Speaker A: Yes, yes. So private money is a, is a great option for, for investors. A lot of investors don't know anything about private money and when they hear the term it conjures up these outrageous interest rates and 30% interest. Exactly. [01:00:06] Speaker C: Something crazy. But it's not that. [01:00:07] Speaker A: But Believe me, they have become very competitive and they have really cut back on their fees and charges and they're being used a lot. [01:00:16] Speaker B: But this is where mortgage broker comes in. Right. This is why a mortgage broker, that's a, where the value comes in, isn't it? All we know is the big four or, you know, the few others that we know about. But we will never know about all these third tiers or private lenders and stuff, unless you actually go to a mortgage broker, especially a good one, who knows about investment, who knows about investment property and the different strategies involved. And as you said, the exit strategy is very important as well. Understanding that, understanding, understanding the circumstances and finally offering the product that would suit. [01:00:51] Speaker A: Yep, exactly. And, and also letting investors know that there's more, there's more available than negatively geared property, which is something I love. Real estate tries to keep people away from. So they, they look at people investing in other types of things a la, you know, doing, doing renovations, doing subdivisions, looking at commercial property, which is an, which is a, an area a lot of investors don't know anything about. [01:01:20] Speaker C: So you had a commercial real estate agent. Yep, just a couple of weeks ago. And that was, that was fantastic, that discussion talking about why they're so valuable. [01:01:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:31] Speaker C: You know, commercial properties, you know, it's a very different to residential properties because you can, you can increase the rent on a commercial property, for example, then you increase the value. [01:01:40] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:01:41] Speaker C: By significant amounts. [01:01:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:43] Speaker C: There was no real limit as to how much you can increase its value. [01:01:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you want, if you're looking to invest for cash flow, passive income, whatever you want to call it, commercial property is a fantastic way to go. And once again, there is now lots and lots more lenders lending in that space. And a large number of private money lenders have come in in the last two or three years. So it's, it's, it's a, it's a massive alternative. [01:02:12] Speaker C: I'm just glad to hear it. So no go. Sorry. [01:02:15] Speaker B: So you do both, isn't it residential and commercial? Yeah, yeah, I remember you mentioned that. [01:02:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Because a lot of, I mean a lot of people who do the courses start out in residential and, and they're a great way to, to boost equity to, you know, to get large chunks of money. But if you want cash flow, if you, you know, you, you want to get to that stage where you can sit back and relax. Look, we know passive income is a, is a term that doesn't really mean what it, what people think it means. There's no passive way to earn money you've got to be active. But you know, if you want cash flow, investing in commercial property is a great way to go. [01:02:57] Speaker B: I completely agree with that. [01:02:59] Speaker C: Exactly right. I was just saying earlier I'm really happy to see that there's all these lending options available now because when you go back in time, 10, 20 years, these guys went around there was low doc loans available but when you really looked at them I didn't see very. It wasn't too much different to a full dock loan. You still had to provide everything anyway. [01:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:21] Speaker C: And generally there's a lot of businesses or individuals that can generate a lot of income but they may not have all those financials in place or they may not have the two years in place but they've got the serviceability. So before they were just completely excluded as an option but now they can access it. [01:03:38] Speaker A: Yep, most definitely. And you know, another a big investment area is self employed people looking at buying their own business premises through self managed super funds, things like that. That's all become, you know, a massive area too. That's a really popular form of investment and for years self employed people always struggle to get, to get loans. [01:04:03] Speaker C: Of course they do. Yeah. The amount of paperwork that they asked for, they bury you in it. [01:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting with finance, mortgage broking now it's become a very regulated industry. But on the positive side there's a, there is a large number of new lenders who are a bit more flexible and are, you know, positioning in various niches to, to help you know, investors or to help, you know, you know, various other types business, small business people or whatever. So all these niches are all attracting their own types of lenders. Bridging is one we talked about briefly. [01:04:47] Speaker C: Yeah, well the paperwork is necessary. I mean they were, all the lenders were forced to become responsible. Yeah. We had nearly 2000s, mid 2000s. I think you could borrow 110% on loans. It was relatively easy to do that. So you could buy the house, buy, sorry, borrow money for the house, borrow the deposit, borrow the, the renovation money. [01:05:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:07] Speaker C: And anybody could get loans. Then the GFC happened and everybody was the, the lenders were looked at a bit more, more closely. They were forced to be responsible. Then it got really tight for a long time. [01:05:19] Speaker A: Yes. [01:05:19] Speaker C: And nobody could borrow any money. [01:05:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And now it's, now it's, it's, it's interesting. I tell young brokers when I started to do a lot loan, you only need two, two pay slips and the lender calculator, that was the only documents you ever required. You didn't have to provide anything else. [01:05:35] Speaker C: Wow, isn't that amazing? Isn't that incredible? [01:05:41] Speaker A: But the interesting thing, and I say this to a lot of people, you know, back then the documents were, there wasn't very few documents required but it still took three weeks to approval and three weeks to settlement and now with all the technology and all the rest of it, it's still three weeks to get an approval. It's just, it's just they talk about the technology and especially in mortgage broking, but you know, the time has not really changed. [01:06:10] Speaker C: You know the trick, there's a bit of a hack to that is just to put a shorter term on the contract for finance. That puts the pressure on. If you do a 14 day finance clause instead of a 21 or 28, I tell you, they move, the broker moves and make sure that hits the mark. [01:06:28] Speaker A: The problem though Carlos, as you know, is you're dealing with banks and they will take their data. They do, they just do it in their own time. [01:06:37] Speaker C: Yeah. If they're pre approved and they've got a good position, 21 days actually works pretty well. [01:06:42] Speaker A: So last 28 and for the listeners out there it's, you know, the, the way things are done in WA's changed people. It's, it's good to go and get a pre approval in place, know how much you can borrow. It means because there's a, not, not as many properties around as there used to be. If you do see something you can move on that property pretty quickly. So you know, five years ago, never did a pre approval. Ten years ago, hardly ever did pre approvals. 2007, the last time the property market really, really boomed was probably the last time I used to do pre approvals and then for years never bothered. It'd be just go and find a property, put an offer in and then we'll work to finance it. [01:07:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:27] Speaker A: Now. [01:07:28] Speaker C: Yeah. Other way around. [01:07:29] Speaker A: Other way around. [01:07:31] Speaker B: Cycles for everything though. Yeah, yeah, there's a cycle for everything. I mean this, this wouldn't last long. I mean it will flip eventually and we'll, we'll see that market again. [01:07:41] Speaker A: I hope so. Yeah, it's. [01:07:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:07:45] Speaker A: I don't know what would be the cause of property prices to fall like they did in 2007. I can't see what would be the stall. [01:07:57] Speaker C: Yes, a full variant. [01:07:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I wasn't talking so much about a 4 fall. I don't think it will fall as such as. Well, I think we have caught up to where we're supposed to be, you know, for a long time. We've stalled for a while. We've. We've not gone up, we've not gone down. [01:08:11] Speaker A: Yep. [01:08:12] Speaker B: You know, so if, if, like what Carlos mentioned last week, we actually draw the graph. We're actually meant to be where we're. [01:08:17] Speaker C: Supposed to be over 20 years. If you average it out. Yeah. The trend is consistently. Huh. [01:08:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Correct. And you know, we've changed a lot. We used to be a one, you know, everything mining. Now we've diversified a little bit, you know, now a lot of people are seeing the value in wa. They're coming into wa. You know, we were at one point we were just building mines, but now it's all operational as well. [01:08:40] Speaker A: Yep. [01:08:41] Speaker B: You know, so there's a lot going for us at the moment, so. [01:08:44] Speaker C: Oh. [01:08:44] Speaker A: Definitely lost all factors. [01:08:47] Speaker B: We're still the closest to Southeast Asia, you know, so. Yeah, we, like you said, there's nothing really to show that we're going to. [01:08:56] Speaker A: Form, you know, or store. [01:08:58] Speaker B: So, you know, we're good for the next few years from what we see currently. [01:09:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:03] Speaker B: Obviously we don't know what will happen tomorrow, but as of now, we're good. [01:09:09] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:09:10] Speaker A: Interesting. It's, it's, you know, having been in it, having been in Broking a long time. It's, it's, you know, I've seen that gfc, when it all went to, you know, it all stopped for a number of years and, and they do talk about cycles. But, you know, this one scene that we're currently in seems like it's going to run for a long way yet. [01:09:32] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, well, we, we talk a lot of statistics on the show. Josh, because he's very organized, brings in the data every week in his little iPad there. But it's, it's the, it got to do with the numbers when we had what, 86 odd thousand new West Australians last year, but about 20,000 houses constructed. So we've got a huge shortfall there. Every week we're watching. Every month. Sorry, every week and every month we're watching the stock on market drop. So the new listings are not replacing, not even, you know, that's about 200 deficit every single month. So if these trends continue, interest rates, if they keep dropping. Yes, these are big factors. [01:10:18] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:10:19] Speaker C: That I'm not seeing a major event yet. Nobody saw Covid coming. Nobody imagined that was going to happen. [01:10:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:26] Speaker C: Unless you were a conspiracy theorist going back, you know, 10 years before. [01:10:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:31] Speaker C: But yeah, you just, you Just don't. Based on our current trends, it doesn't look like it's going to stop. Stall and least likely to go backwards. [01:10:41] Speaker A: Interesting times, as they say. [01:10:43] Speaker B: Yes, interesting times. All right, so we going to a bit of a break before. [01:10:48] Speaker C: Let's have a quick break. And you're listening to Carlos and Josh on the Perth probably bros. More music, better mental health. [01:10:58] Speaker A: Only on IPL radio. [01:11:15] Speaker D: I can almost see it that dream I'm dreaming But there's a voice inside my head saying you'll never reach it Every step I'm taking every move I make feels lost with no direction My faith is shaking but I gotta keep. [01:11:43] Speaker C: Trying. [01:11:45] Speaker D: Gotta keep my head held high there's always going to be another mountain I'm always going to want to make it move Always going to be in a build battle Sometimes I'm going to have to lose Ain't about how fast I get there Ain't about what's waiting on the other side it's the cloud time the struggles I'm facing the chances I'm taking Sometimes might knock me down but no, I'm not breaking I may not know it but these are the moments that I'm going to remember most yeah just gotta keep going and I I gotta be strong Just keep pushing on Cause there's always gonna be another mountain I'm always gonna wanna make it move Always gonna be an uphill battle and sometimes I'm gonna have to laugh Ain't about how fast I get there in a bow Was waiting on the other side it's a fly there's always gonna be another mountain I'm always gonna want to make it move Always gonna be an uphill battle Sometimes you're gonna have to last Ain't about how fast I get there Ain't about what's waiting on the other side it. [01:14:17] Speaker C: Day keep. [01:14:21] Speaker D: On moving Keep the baby Jesus. [01:14:55] Speaker B: And. [01:14:56] Speaker E: Now the end is near and so I face the final curtain my friend I'll say it clear I'll state my case of which I'm certain I've lived a life that's full I traveled each and every highway and more, much more than this I, I did it my way Regrets I've had a few. [01:15:51] Speaker A: But. [01:15:52] Speaker E: Then again too few to mention I did what I had to do. [01:16:04] Speaker A: And. [01:16:04] Speaker E: Saw it through without exemption I planned each charted course each careful step along the byway and more much more than this I did it my way yes, there were times I'm sure you knew When I bit off more than I could chew but through it all when there was doubt I ate it up and spit it out I faced it. [01:17:01] Speaker C: All. [01:17:04] Speaker E: And I stood tall and did it my way. I loved, I've laughed and cried I've had my fill, my share of losing and now as tears subside I find it all so amusing to think I did all that and may I say not in a shy way oh no, oh no, not me. I did it my. [01:18:02] Speaker C: Way. [01:18:03] Speaker E: For what is a man? What has he got if not himself then he has not to say the. [01:18:18] Speaker C: Things. [01:18:20] Speaker E: He truly feels and not the. [01:18:24] Speaker D: Worst yet of one who KN the record show I took the blow. [01:18:36] Speaker C: And did it my. [01:18:42] Speaker E: Way. Yes, it was my. [01:19:11] Speaker C: Way. Yes Folks, you're on the Perth probably bros with Carlos and Josh. And Josh did it his way it. [01:19:49] Speaker D: Can we talk about us like we care about us? Can we talk about love like we care about love? You say let it breathe but the Spain of my heart can't let it be. We both can agree Tell me what is the going up? [01:20:17] Speaker C: Not the first like the cool day. [01:20:30] Speaker D: Can we talk about us like we care about us can we talk about love? We care about love we can't let it be cuz we live in a time of make believe we both can agree that we reaching the point of. [01:20:58] Speaker C: Not the first like the cool days. [01:21:12] Speaker B: Good morning darling. I see you falling in and out of love. Is it because you're cold and heartless or is it doubled draws Forgot to hide to be your part of that final scene in Casablanca I guess the heart is like a time bomb. No white horse for you to ride on. Bygones but bygones. My God, you're beautiful. If it was two of you probably break the first one's hard and tube a second time the charm I had a dream you lock your father's arm and mosey down the alleyway. I know you probably had a wild day so you should make your way to my place and we can talk about the things you want to talk about. [01:21:53] Speaker D: You know I know you know. [01:22:00] Speaker B: You. [01:22:00] Speaker D: Know I know what you know. [01:22:07] Speaker C: Not the first time the cool day. Not the first time the cool day. Not the burnside the cold day. [01:22:48] Speaker A: More music, better mental health only on IPL radio. [01:22:55] Speaker C: And back again with the birth Perth property bros. Carlos and Josh. [01:22:59] Speaker B: Yes, you're back. [01:23:00] Speaker C: And our very special guest, Andrew. [01:23:03] Speaker A: Thank you guys. [01:23:03] Speaker C: Are you enjoying your time? [01:23:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it's great. Having a fantastic time. [01:23:06] Speaker C: I love the conversations had during the breaks because, well, we should just stay on the whole time. Sometimes they're even more interesting than to what we talk about on the air. [01:23:15] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, you usually. That's the case, isn't it? [01:23:18] Speaker C: Generally it's the case. Depending on the guests. Sometimes they, they might come in a little bit nervous and they completely relax when we're off the air. [01:23:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:26] Speaker C: And then there's some great conversations had. So there you have it. [01:23:31] Speaker B: So Andrew and I were talking a little bit about I love real estate. You see the course by Defna Bohol and I was the moment Andrew mentioned it, I know it because I've been to one of her sessions and she usually does it in the Esplanade Hotel down in Frio. [01:23:44] Speaker C: That's a good hotel. [01:23:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:46] Speaker A: Yep. And all the, all the other, most of the stuff is delivered at the Novatel Langley in East Perth. [01:23:55] Speaker B: Okay. [01:23:55] Speaker A: Yeah. So, but, but Diff's got her three day boot camp coming up which is the Perth one. There's one in every city every year. [01:24:06] Speaker B: Y. [01:24:07] Speaker A: They're extremely popular and, and for people listening, if they're interested in starting their investment journey, go to the website. There's a ton of free information on there about investing. You don't have to spend any money there but if you do want to start the journey then have maybe having a look at coming along to the boot camp. Yeah, I think it's Friday, August 23rd, 24th, 25th. Probably have to double check those dates. [01:24:43] Speaker B: Is that a free bootcamp? [01:24:45] Speaker A: No, no, no, it's, it's a pay. Diffton will be speaking and then there's sessions from brokers, legal people, talking asset protection, commercial property people, people. The, the whole spectrum will be delivering speeches, courses there. It's, it's very intense but it's fabulous training. And then there's you know, opportunity to join the Platinum group which is, meets every month and that is people getting together. There's probably about 50 in the Perth Platinum Group. There is a cost to that but you have a coach and you have, have mentors that really assist you on that property journey. So you know, if you, if you are very much motivated about financial freedom and investing in property for to have a fantastic retirement then well worth looking at the I love real estate website and working out whether property investment is for you. [01:25:50] Speaker C: It's a great motivator, isn't it? When, when you're joining these groups and there's a fee and the bigger the fee the more seriously you tend to take it. Josh and I were talking about this when we're motivating our own teams within our networking groups and there's networking groups out There that charge, you know, thousands and thousands a year. 20,000. I came across one that did 100,000 a year. And if you're sort of paying that sort of money one, you're going to be more serious about it but you're also dealing with a different caliber professional. [01:26:18] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:26:18] Speaker C: And you're rubbing shoulders with people that are very like minded and you're more likely to do. Do amazing business together. [01:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:26:25] Speaker C: So you certainly get a lot out of it. [01:26:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:26:27] Speaker C: If you, you come to come along to these seminars, join these groups and are really serious about your, your property journey. [01:26:35] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And, and I love real estate has, you know, there's plenty of free stuff. But if you want to get really serious about that, you know, you can go all the way and do platinum and join the platinum club and, and meet some really interesting people who have done extremely well out of property investing. [01:26:54] Speaker B: Excellent. Actually I might, might scoot on down and have a look at what they have to offer because the last time I was there was 2015 I think. 2015 or 2016 when I was last there. [01:27:04] Speaker A: So all the dates are on the website. All the. [01:27:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I might check it out. [01:27:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Have a look. And like I say, there's a ton of stuff on there. It's mind boggling. [01:27:13] Speaker B: Interesting. [01:27:14] Speaker C: Well, if you play our cards right, we might even be presenters at this event. [01:27:20] Speaker B: Carlos and Josh covering the show. [01:27:24] Speaker C: Yeah, we can actually do that. Josh and I have been planning for quite some time to be taking the, the show remote. [01:27:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:30] Speaker C: So to go to events like this because we, we've got access to press passes of course and we can go to these events and broadcast live or interview people like yourself. Some of the other presenters. Yeah, sorry, the name of the lady that owns. [01:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:47] Speaker C: Interview people like that and just add value to our listeners. Yeah, definitely with going out on site. So. [01:27:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:53] Speaker C: Watch this space. [01:27:55] Speaker B: Watch this space. Yes. Just put him on the spot there. [01:27:59] Speaker C: I was already teasing you. Right. Don't worry. [01:28:01] Speaker A: That's okay. I'm happy to be teased. [01:28:04] Speaker C: Good. [01:28:05] Speaker B: All right. Back to back a little bit. [01:28:08] Speaker C: Wait till you get to the. To Josh's famous quick fire questions. [01:28:12] Speaker B: Okay. Yes. [01:28:13] Speaker C: Tell you what, that's coming up very soon. [01:28:15] Speaker B: It will. So what's, what's it like being back, Andrew? Do you miss it? Obviously you missed it. That's why you came back. [01:28:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I just, I just, just. It's an interesting question, Josh and I've sort of thought through it myself and no doubt there's plenty of listeners out there who are near retirement or have Retired or, you know, it's five years away. It's a. It's an interesting thing. It comes up very quickly and, you know, you're not. Most people aren't really prepared for it either, mentally, financially. So, you know, when it does arrive, it sort of catches you off guard. [01:28:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:28:58] Speaker A: So, you know, I've got three kids and I'd spent the last few years getting them launched, you know, and then all of a sudden you've. You've sort of hit this retirement thing, so. [01:29:11] Speaker B: But you've got a grandkid now. [01:29:13] Speaker A: Yes. She's seven weeks old. Yes. [01:29:15] Speaker C: Congratulations. [01:29:17] Speaker A: So. Fantastic. Yeah. So it, it's an interesting one. It's hard to explain to you younger people how. What the psychology of all of that, but for those who are in that space, it's. It's something to work through. [01:29:33] Speaker C: It's. [01:29:34] Speaker A: It is a real adjustment. A bit like becoming a parent or your first day at school or your first day at university. It's one of those bits. Big life changes and. Yeah, So, I mean, I tried it for a while and then I realized that it's probably not for me yet and I've still got a little bit more to give. So, you know, get back into doing broking and also doing the side stuff with helping new brokers to industry find their feet. It's like joining any industry. It's not easy in the beginning and there's always lot to learn and. And with broking, they have set up a mentor system. You're required to have a mentor in your first two years. As. As brokers. [01:30:21] Speaker C: Is that a legal requirement or to do with the institution? [01:30:24] Speaker A: It's more a membership requirement. You know, there's two associations to become a. To become a member and. And you cannot operate as a broker unless you're a member of an association. So it's all almost. [01:30:35] Speaker C: They get you that way. Yeah, yeah. [01:30:38] Speaker A: So, which is probably a good thing. [01:30:40] Speaker C: You need something to refer to because you could get stuck out there. [01:30:43] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. It's probably, you know, they're still finding out the best way for it to work. There's a lot of stories of mentors probably not doing enough to help the. The new broker. But, you know, there's always two sides or three sides to every story. So it's a work in progress. [01:31:04] Speaker C: Are they being paid as mentors or this is a volunteer thing? [01:31:08] Speaker A: Some. Some do. Or what happens? The, the main way it happens, Craig, is you're employed by a broker, so you join a broker business and so they effectively become your mentor. For the two year time period. [01:31:21] Speaker C: Okay. [01:31:22] Speaker A: But a lot of brokers do get mentors and pay them, you know, so it's almost like a coaching service. [01:31:30] Speaker C: Okay. [01:31:31] Speaker A: So that's more the space I'm moving into. [01:31:34] Speaker C: Right, okay. [01:31:35] Speaker A: Is coaching new brokers and also brokers who have just gone into their own business. They've, they've been doing it a year or two and trying to help them that way. So I'm a quasi mentor in a way. I'm not trying to, to be a mentor because there's a lot of, of other things you need to focus on about, you know, teaching people how to process loans and all that sort of stuff. I'm not really interested in that angle. I'm more interested in trying to teach brokers lead generation techniques and some of which we've sort of discussed in our conversations off air such as joining a BNI and all those. [01:32:15] Speaker C: Rotary come and join Rotary or. Yeah, honestly there's of lot, a lot of semi retired and retired people that become professional Rotarians. [01:32:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:32:23] Speaker C: Still have a lot to give. Like you say it sounds like you're doing a very productive, you know, very productive use of your time and energy to, to give back your, your knowledge and experience. But you can also do that in the community in various different organizations. Yeah, obviously I'm always running around recruiting Rotarians. I've got three coming tonight. Three guests coming tonight. [01:32:41] Speaker A: That's fantastic. Yeah, any networking group is. Well, you know, I highly recommend anyone in, in any sort of industry to join a networking group. It's a great way of building a business. [01:32:54] Speaker B: And also like because Andrew's just joined Wisdom Loan obviously so he's obviously have to put into practice all this lead exactly things that he's practiced. [01:33:04] Speaker C: Yes, he seems to have a handle on that lead gen. Well, I, when. [01:33:07] Speaker A: I sold my business to my daughter, I sold her everything. So I'm starting from scratch again. So I'm sort of writing about it on LinkedIn as a, you know, experiment. [01:33:18] Speaker B: Like a case study. [01:33:19] Speaker A: Yeah, case study. [01:33:20] Speaker B: And so yeah, so it's pretty much she's putting it into practice mentoring everyone which is really cool. Yeah. [01:33:26] Speaker C: Are you using Chat GPT to help you with your, with your writing? [01:33:30] Speaker A: No, I haven't really sort of explored doing that. I'm just trying to build up a good writing skill by doing it myself. And then maybe over time I'll start exploring adding, you know, using AI to assist. But I'm sure there's a multitude of AI generated stuff out there that they probably don't need someone else like me doing it. So I'm just trying to do it the old way. [01:33:58] Speaker C: Yeah, that's exactly. [01:33:59] Speaker A: And I think you'd learn a bit more. I mean, the scary bit about AI is, is, you know, if people don't learn the old way and they're using AI, do they really know what they're doing? So, and there's, you know, there's lots of views about how AI is going to play out and, and all the rest of it, but I think people need to learn the skills first and then of course, use that as a tool. [01:34:22] Speaker C: Yeah, it's exactly right. I mean, a lot of agents use AI to, to write ads. I was, I was doing one just today for a new listing that I was preparing. And it's not so much for it to do it for me, it's, it helps expand my ideas. [01:34:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:37] Speaker C: So I know what needs to be said, how it needs to be said, what needs to be in there specifically, and I'll just get it to help me with structure. [01:34:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:45] Speaker C: So that's, that's where I find value in it. [01:34:47] Speaker A: But you know, what happens with someone who's a new agent doing their first listings, going straight, that's where I completely agree with you. [01:34:55] Speaker C: You need to know your stuff. [01:34:57] Speaker B: You can tell from realestate.com those that actually use it, who just copy and paste it on there. [01:35:02] Speaker C: Oh yeah. [01:35:02] Speaker B: Even have the courtesy to just change it around a little bit. [01:35:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So that, that's, that's an interesting. I mean, it's going to be big and broking. I mean, the whole thing with AI is hopefully it'll make processing loans a lot easier. But you know, banks have to then get their systems up to be able to do that. [01:35:25] Speaker B: You know, I think it'll affect everyone in real estate banking. You know, I think there's a, there's ways we can improve 100%, I feel. [01:35:35] Speaker C: Because it's very good at reading financial statements. You can feed financial data into it and ask it to analyze, whichever, which way and it'll do it. So I mean, I bounce off it when I'm working on commercial appraisals to double check myself, double check my reasoning, it generally comes back on point or better and it will expand. This is what's good about it. It'll expand if provided. If you feed it good data, good prompts, it'll expand on what you say. But if you feed what you're doing, you feed it bad information, it'll do the same. It'll expand on bad input. So yeah, you have to be careful with it. I completely agree. [01:36:17] Speaker A: I mean, I'd like it to sort of. Hopefully it becomes something that really improves the customer experience. Doesn't matter what field you're in. So, you know, Instead of waiting 21 days to get a loan approval, if AI works like they're promising us, it'd be great to get loan approvals in three to five days or three to, to five hours. Three to five hours speeds it all up for everyone. Everyone's happier, customers happier, you know, so. But, you know, that depends on banks having decent systems to do that. [01:36:49] Speaker B: That's been amazing, isn't it, having Andrew on here and sharing your expertise. [01:36:53] Speaker C: Well, look it, I'm really looking forward to having Andrew as my guest at bni. [01:36:57] Speaker B: Hell no. You can't give hijacking all my guest, man. Every week he takes all my guests away. No way. [01:37:08] Speaker C: It's. It's so easy to get a riser, Josh. [01:37:11] Speaker B: Anyway. All right. You happy to do a rapid fire? [01:37:14] Speaker A: Yes. [01:37:15] Speaker B: All right, so we're going to ask you a few questions. So it's pretty much a very quick answers for m. Ready? [01:37:22] Speaker A: Yep. [01:37:23] Speaker B: So I've got about 10 questions here. [01:37:24] Speaker A: Okay. [01:37:26] Speaker B: Fixed or variable? [01:37:27] Speaker A: Variable. [01:37:28] Speaker B: Why is that? [01:37:31] Speaker A: It's just you never get any complaints from customers when you give them a variable loan. But what happens when you, when you give them a fixed loan? If the interest rate goes down and they're in a fixed loan, they are very unhappy. [01:37:46] Speaker C: Exactly. Especially if it drops substantially. Yeah. [01:37:50] Speaker A: Variable. Unless they've got, unless there's a loft chance changing event. [01:37:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:54] Speaker A: And you know, maybe they're going to, their partner's going to have a baby, so they need to know what the repayments are. I always suggest variable. [01:38:01] Speaker C: Variable. Yeah. Okay. [01:38:02] Speaker B: All right, Excellent. Good answer. Interest only or PNI for an investor? [01:38:07] Speaker A: Interest only. Most definitely. [01:38:10] Speaker C: Use the bank's money. [01:38:11] Speaker A: Use the bank's money. Unless you've got a, you know, an absolute, you know, some people have an absolute desire to pay the loan down. That's great. But, you know, let the capital growth do its work and, and, and, and manage your cash flow. [01:38:26] Speaker B: Excellent. Now, paperwork or people, which do you enjoy more? [01:38:32] Speaker A: Definitely the people. Yeah, yeah, sure. But paperwork, Paperwork's important. [01:38:40] Speaker B: All right. Best advice you have ever received. [01:38:45] Speaker A: Best advice I've ever received. I think whenever you meet someone, make a friend. Don't. [01:38:53] Speaker C: You know, I love that. [01:38:55] Speaker A: Just don't think of some people as tien. I'm talking this in a business sense. [01:39:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:39:01] Speaker A: I found over the years I've met people and you know, tried to make a friend and five years later they come ring me up out of the blue and want me, wanted me to do a loan. I've had that happen so many times. So I tell young brokers, whenever you meet someone, just make a friend. Don't even worry about the business transaction or the potential business transaction. [01:39:23] Speaker B: Nice. Well, this leads into my next one. Best advice you have ever given. [01:39:27] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think. I think that's it. Yeah, it really worked for me and I think it works for anyone that's in a people facing industry. [01:39:34] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm writing it down actually, as we speak. When you meet someone or just when. [01:39:39] Speaker A: You meet anyone, you know, when you're dealing with a valuer or you're dealing with an annoying building inspector or some. Whatever it is, Carlos, it's very true. [01:39:48] Speaker C: We talk about it often. I mean, it doesn't matter who you're dealing with or speak specifically for my. My profession. Everybody's involved in the property game somehow. And if they're not directly, someone they know is. It's a neighbor, a friend, a family, a cousin, whoever. And if they're not, guess who? Their friends or family or network. We're talking about networks with, Josh. So, yeah, if you make a friend like you say, and people think of you, they can make those connections for you. It doesn't matter who they are, what walk of life they come from. [01:40:20] Speaker A: Some spark you have fixing up a property. You know, you're nice to him and he goes to his mate. Oh, look, I met this agent, you know, a really good guy. Give him a ring if you're thinking of buying a house. [01:40:29] Speaker C: And there's the connection. That's exactly right. [01:40:33] Speaker B: All right, next one. One thing buyers should always do before applying for a loan. [01:40:39] Speaker A: Get their paperwork together. [01:40:41] Speaker C: Excellent. [01:40:42] Speaker B: Biggest mistake you see people make when borrowing. [01:40:47] Speaker A: That's a good question. Biggest mistake, not having their paperwork together. [01:40:55] Speaker B: Nice. All right, Credit. Credit score. Overhyped or underrated? [01:41:00] Speaker A: Underrated. I think people really should have. Should know a little bit more about how credit scores work and what they are and what impact a bad one can have. [01:41:10] Speaker B: Yeah, we talked just now about a credit repair, isn't it? And we should really get on the show. Yes. [01:41:14] Speaker C: Yeah, we've got a contact that does that sort of thing. [01:41:16] Speaker A: Another profession that's come out, a number nowhere but, you know, can really help. [01:41:20] Speaker C: People like buyer's agents. [01:41:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:41:23] Speaker A: And mortgage brokers 20 years ago. [01:41:26] Speaker C: That's right. [01:41:27] Speaker B: All right, Investment or dream home first. [01:41:34] Speaker A: That's a really good one. [01:41:35] Speaker C: Rich dad, poor dad. [01:41:37] Speaker A: It's a really good one. [01:41:38] Speaker C: What's the answer? [01:41:39] Speaker A: Because they both work, don't they? They both work. If you buy your dream home, it's a great asset. [01:41:46] Speaker B: Well, I guess it depends at what point in life you are. Yeah, I think that's. That's all right. It depends which point. If you're in that early accumulating and you're quite aggressive. Yes. An investment. But if you just want to settle down with kids. Yeah. First home. [01:41:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:42:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:42:00] Speaker A: There's no sort of straight answer that 10 years ago would have gone. [01:42:04] Speaker B: Investment. Yeah. [01:42:05] Speaker A: Because, you know, property prices were doing a lot. So that now. [01:42:11] Speaker B: All right, and what's your type of coffee with every. Every morning? [01:42:16] Speaker A: Latte, no sugar. [01:42:17] Speaker B: There you go. [01:42:19] Speaker A: Regular. [01:42:20] Speaker B: Excellent. So that's. That's Andrew, in a nutshell. [01:42:22] Speaker C: What's your type of coffee, Mr. Josh? [01:42:24] Speaker B: I always have a mocha, but everyone laughs at me about it. Says there's not a coffee. [01:42:30] Speaker C: No, you need a long Mac top mate. [01:42:31] Speaker B: There you go. [01:42:32] Speaker C: That's a real one. [01:42:35] Speaker B: Well, that's awesome. Andrew, thank you for coming on the show. [01:42:40] Speaker A: Thanks for having me. [01:42:41] Speaker C: Good to make you and good to make a friend. [01:42:43] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [01:42:44] Speaker C: Yes. [01:42:45] Speaker A: That should always be doing that. [01:42:48] Speaker C: I can't wait to introduce you to my team at bni. [01:42:53] Speaker A: Oh, really? [01:42:55] Speaker B: Anyway, Andrew, if people wanted to contact you, how would they find you? [01:42:59] Speaker A: They can go to the Wisdom website and search for myself. [01:43:06] Speaker C: That's with a. With a zed. [01:43:07] Speaker A: With a Z. [01:43:09] Speaker C: So. [01:43:10] Speaker B: Wisdom Loans dot com. [01:43:12] Speaker A: Wisdom dot com. Yeah. So. Because they also have an accounting firm. [01:43:17] Speaker B: Okay. [01:43:18] Speaker A: Financial planners, legal firms. So it's a big group. [01:43:22] Speaker B: Okay. [01:43:23] Speaker A: But if they go there and put my name in, they can find me. Yep. [01:43:26] Speaker B: Excellent. [01:43:27] Speaker A: Or just Google me. [01:43:28] Speaker C: Google. Yeah. You're not a BNI member anymore, are you? [01:43:32] Speaker A: No. [01:43:32] Speaker C: Isn't it. It's amazing how we come up very high in the search results when somebody Googles our names. [01:43:37] Speaker A: Yeah. But, you know, it's good like that when. [01:43:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Our profiles come up second after our website. Generally, it's just there. [01:43:44] Speaker A: Such a great networking organization. [01:43:45] Speaker C: Bean. [01:43:46] Speaker A: I'm a big fan of them. [01:43:47] Speaker C: Yes. Brilliant. [01:43:49] Speaker B: All right, just final takeaway then, Andrew, before we let you leave. [01:43:55] Speaker A: Final takeaway. Look, if you want to build wealth in Australia, you know, buy property. [01:44:02] Speaker B: Excellent. [01:44:03] Speaker C: That's a very good one. [01:44:04] Speaker B: Did you mention that? Just because we're the real estate agent, you know, it's. [01:44:09] Speaker A: It's just one of those things. It's a perennial. [01:44:11] Speaker B: And. [01:44:11] Speaker A: And if you do it right, it just. It works so well. [01:44:14] Speaker B: Yes. [01:44:15] Speaker C: 100. [01:44:15] Speaker B: Well, again, thank you very much. [01:44:17] Speaker A: Thanks, Josh. [01:44:18] Speaker C: Thank you. It's been fantastic. You're absolutely fantastic to meet you again. It's absolutely lovely. Now we're gonna have a very quick break, then we'll come back and do our final sign off. You're in the Perth Property Bros with Carlos and Josh. [01:44:30] Speaker A: More music, better mental health. Only on IPL radio. [01:44:37] Speaker B: And you're listening to the Perth Property Bros with Josh and Carlos. And that was Coldplay there. [01:44:42] Speaker C: Carlos, you are cruising for bruising. [01:44:44] Speaker B: Yeah, there you go. [01:44:47] Speaker C: What were we talking about? Coldplay during the break? [01:44:50] Speaker B: We were. What's that? [01:44:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:44:51] Speaker B: What was it about again? [01:44:51] Speaker C: The CEO of course. [01:44:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:44:56] Speaker B: It's what's making headlines a little bit, isn't it? [01:44:58] Speaker C: Isn't it amazing? [01:44:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it was. [01:45:00] Speaker C: Yeah, it just caught fire that one and just took off. People mocking it and they're just replaying it all over the place. [01:45:08] Speaker B: I was just seeing it. It was 36 million views within 20 days or something like. Oh swell. It was crazy. [01:45:14] Speaker C: They should have just gone with it. Yeah, should have just given the camera kiss instead of trying to hide. [01:45:19] Speaker B: Well, it's done now. [01:45:23] Speaker C: So we've got Josh, we've got some stats. [01:45:26] Speaker B: So we were obviously we're back to talking property again. No, he wanted to highlight again that, you know, we've been talking about properties going down and it is, you know. [01:45:38] Speaker C: The last numbers of property on the market. [01:45:40] Speaker B: Numbers of property like the last we spoke was what about 4,000 properties on the market that went down to 3, 6. Now it's about 3,400 properties on the market. [01:45:49] Speaker C: So it seems to be consistent with every week when we look at the stats, it drops about 200. [01:45:53] Speaker B: Yes. So four weeks ago it's about 4,000. Same week last year we had 3,200 properties on the market. [01:46:01] Speaker C: Okay, so it's pretty comparable to last year. [01:46:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:46:03] Speaker C: So it effectively means that the numbers of, of new listings coming on the market are not replacing the sales going out the door. And we've got a shortfall of about 200 month by month. [01:46:15] Speaker B: That's right. And properties for sale, there's about 806 properties. So that's 586 houses, that's 139 units and 81. Len. [01:46:27] Speaker C: That's the breakdown. [01:46:28] Speaker B: That's the breakdown, yes. So still our top selling suburbs at the moment is Perth Ellenbrook, Averley and Alkamos. [01:46:35] Speaker C: What about Morley? You love Morley so much. [01:46:37] Speaker B: Morley's gone out. It's not there anymore. [01:46:39] Speaker C: Geez, Avery's beautiful. [01:46:40] Speaker B: Well, it's not that it's got, it's. There's not a lot of properties in Morley. It's going out really quick and south of the river. So all this made it Baldivis, Byford, Armadale and Rockingham. [01:46:55] Speaker C: So leaving, you know, one of our colleagues just sold the property in Armidale and It was about 100 grand over expectation. When we do the research, we look at what's on the market, what's sold, we compare it by land size, by quality of the build, by age of the build, and, and we've got enough data points to say, within reason, it probably should be from around this sort of range, say 520. In this case, 520 to 550 is about right. This place went over 100 grand over the asking over east investor. So obviously they still think they can make some money in Armadale. It's been the case for the last of years, couple, couple of years and they have. Properties I've sold have resold for, you know, at least 2, 300 grand more. [01:47:52] Speaker B: Is it a subdivision potential or anything like that? [01:47:56] Speaker C: It was a big block, 800 odd. So you definitely granny flat. I didn't look at the R code specifically on that one, just the comparisons. [01:48:07] Speaker B: Interesting. [01:48:08] Speaker C: That's your job, Josh. You look at splitting them up, mate. Yeah. [01:48:12] Speaker B: Oh, well, we look at whatever potential there is, isn't it? [01:48:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Because this is what you, you're very good at, isn't it? When you're looking at properties for a buyer, you are, you're going in to answer those questions. One, can a granny flat go in? Two, is, is there enough room down the side or down the back to. To actually create a whole nother title and split it off, sell it off. Is it a corner block? Corner blocks are very good. So sometimes you can actually get that. That subdivided rear to access through another street. [01:48:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And I mean, that's one of it. Then the other things are also, like I was telling you before about value add. Like, you know, it's a three by one. Can I make it a 4x1? Can I add an additional bathroom in there to make it a three by two, you know, that kind of thing. Or can I convert a potential living area into a bedroom to make it so all those gives it value? [01:49:03] Speaker C: There's a cost benefit analysis on this, isn't there? [01:49:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. [01:49:05] Speaker C: If you're going to spend 20 grand on a new bathroom, is it going to make you just your money back or is it going to make you 50 grand, say 30 up, or is it going to make such a significant difference that it's going to be about 100 grand. [01:49:19] Speaker B: I've got an interesting question that I was asked by a real estate agent friend of mine as well, probably a good one to have a discussion on the show. So he has one by one, one plus a study. Now he's thinking of converting it a study into a bedroom or it's currently used as a bedroom. [01:49:40] Speaker C: Right. Is it a house? [01:49:41] Speaker B: It is a house. [01:49:42] Speaker C: A one bedroom house. [01:49:43] Speaker B: A one bedroom house. [01:49:44] Speaker C: Really? How big is the land? [01:49:46] Speaker B: It's not that big. It's not that big. So the study is pretty small. So you're looking at maybe a. [01:49:56] Speaker C: 2. [01:49:56] Speaker B: By 5 by 2 by 2 or something like that. [01:50:00] Speaker C: Okay. [01:50:00] Speaker B: Yeah, you can put in a single bed. [01:50:02] Speaker C: Okay. I've seen some very small single bedrooms. So. [01:50:05] Speaker B: But the. What he was asking me was, Josh, can I actually put this up as a two by two by one? And my answer was you have to be really, it. It's a hard, it's hard to say that because if that the case, we can always convert anything. You built a one by one. You didn't build a two by one. That's a big price difference there, right. Between a one by one and a two by one. [01:50:30] Speaker C: So how would you sell a generally smaller. [01:50:33] Speaker B: A lot smaller. I think a lot of people especially currently has this notion that if there's no built in wardrobe, it's not a, it's not a bedroom. [01:50:41] Speaker C: No, I don't. [01:50:42] Speaker B: That's. That doesn't work that way. That's right. [01:50:44] Speaker C: It goes back to your initial residential approval. So you can generally have five bedrooms on a residential approval. And when you're looking at granny flats, this is when it starts to sort of. You start reallocating bedrooms. So say you have four bedrooms in the house and you want to build a granny flat with two bedrooms, you might reallocate the house to be a three bedroom with a study and then you might have two bedrooms at the back or you keep your four bedrooms in a study at the house and the other one becomes a one bedroom with a study. It's still all those numbers of rooms, but they're all just adding up to be the five maximum on the residential approval. And that's got to do with numbers of bathroom, how much the sewer's been used, how many cars are allowed on the lot, that sort of thing. So yeah, reallocation is not a difficult process. Sometimes you, you can basically just call council, which we did for a property in Shoalwater, and say, hey, I've Got a room, we converted a media room. It was a four bedroom house. I was looking at the averages and at the time it was something like 550, 550 for a four bedroom house. But there wasn't any five bedroom houses on the market and the media room was just such a good spot for a decent bedroom. The seller called council double checked it. They just wanted to make sure it was big enough, it wasn't going to be like a, you know, 1.5 by 1.5 size bedroom. They said you weren't sort of doing anything wrong by then. We advertised it as a five bedroom and that place ended up getting 680 because it sold as a five bedroom. But I was very clear on my disclosures that media room or fifth bedroom, which we've just done with the property properly in Southern river, there's a study there, it's a five bedroom house. It also has a study. You can make it a sixth. [01:52:33] Speaker B: But that was my argument is, is what you've done is correct. Is where you actually call the council and get it reallocated. [01:52:39] Speaker C: Was correct. [01:52:40] Speaker B: That was actually, that was what I told him as well. Because let's be frank, you built a one bedroom. [01:52:46] Speaker C: Yeah. It's not a complicated process, it's not hard. [01:52:49] Speaker B: Correct. But what I was trying to tell him was, you know, you built a one bedroom, now you're trying to pass it as a two bedroom. Why? Because there's a big difference in the price. Right. [01:52:58] Speaker C: Well, when you're looking at RP data. [01:53:00] Speaker B: Yes. [01:53:00] Speaker C: You're looking at comparables. If you, if you're looking at a three bedroom house, four bedroom house or five bedroom house, say the algorithm is going to search for four bedroom houses and compare it to that. [01:53:11] Speaker B: Yep. [01:53:12] Speaker C: And then when you go up in a bedroom, you go into another price bracket. Correct. [01:53:16] Speaker B: Exactly Right. [01:53:17] Speaker C: So it makes a big difference. [01:53:18] Speaker B: Yes. [01:53:19] Speaker C: You know, it's just a matter of whether your buyer will, you know, will accept that it, it is a second. Yeah. [01:53:24] Speaker B: 100. It can't be a storeroom, you must disclose it though. That's what I was trying to say. [01:53:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:53:28] Speaker B: You know, you have to make sure that it's being disclosed. You can't just say no, it is a bedroom. Just because I put a room, it can fit a bed in there, doesn't make it a room. [01:53:35] Speaker C: You know, just be clear with your disclosure. Correct. And you can't go over your residential approval anyway. You can't turn like a five bedroom, sorry, a three bedroom house into an eight bedroom house and just say, hey, this has got eight bedrooms. You know that that needs a whole other approval. [01:53:50] Speaker B: So does the granny flat falls under that as well? Does it follow the granny flat also falls under that location as well? [01:53:57] Speaker C: Yeah. As long as you don't accept the five bedroom, you can have studies, you can have rumpus rooms, you get creative with what you call the other rooms. As long as you don't have five bedrooms. More than five bedrooms on the approval. [01:54:08] Speaker B: Interesting. Excellent. All right, so we're going to have Andrew come in in a bit. Yeah. Our mortgage broker. So we've got quite a few mortgage brokers lined up for this show. [01:54:20] Speaker C: Are they good to talk to? [01:54:22] Speaker B: 100%. I think it's very good. Like him, he. He mentors other mortgage brokers as well and currently is working in Wisdom Loan. So that's a group with Ilove Property. You know who they are. So they are. Investment group with DFNA Bohol. I don't know if you know them, but anyway, they, they train investors to go out and look for investment properties. So they've got a course and everything. I've been to one of their talks down in Fremantle at one point. Quite interesting. Very interesting. So they've got a mortgage broking arm which is called Wisdom Loan, and Andrew is part of that group. So it'd be interesting to have a chat. So the reason I was having a chat with him and we were talking about what's, you know, when you're an investor and you're looking to take out loans, you're not just looking at normal loans anymore, you know, it's an investment loan and what comes with it. Because we're always looking for the best rate, what's the cheapest, you know, the lowest interest rate, what's the. What else can we get out there? But it's normally for either residential buyers or someone who just owns one or two investment properties. But once you start owning a lot of investment properties, that's when you need to start getting creative with your. [01:55:42] Speaker C: You're talking about cross collateralization. [01:55:44] Speaker B: Cross collateralization is something we want to avoid. [01:55:48] Speaker C: Say it quickly three times. [01:55:51] Speaker B: Yeah, but what I'm saying is, you know, know there's lots of options out there and you really need someone who knows the investment space to be able to guide you and do that loan for you. [01:56:01] Speaker C: Because you can really tie these things up pretty tightly. It can be very complicated how they. How they use multiple properties to create an investment loan. [01:56:10] Speaker B: Correct. I think that that's another thing that I was doing today. You know, like if you currently in the Property market, you know, when you, when you first buy your property, you have to save up. Right. So you're saving up that 20%, your hard earned 20%. You slog you, you know, with all your blood, sweat and tears and finally you buy the property. [01:56:29] Speaker C: It's not the case with the second one, is it? [01:56:31] Speaker B: That's not the case with the second one. That's right now is how do we use the equity to go on to buy multiples after that? That's exactly. You know, you don't have to save as much as you did for your first one in order to go and get your second and third one. [01:56:45] Speaker C: It just becomes a matter. So you might have the equity in there to cover your deposit or your deposit bond, but you just have to make sure that you can afford the repayments across the gross line. [01:56:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's where one of those methods where they say cross collide, cross, cross, cross collateralization. Yes. [01:57:03] Speaker C: You know, you'd have as an investment like you need a tenant any that other income and that, that helps you serviceability and you've got your equity and it comes together quite nicely. [01:57:14] Speaker B: It does. [01:57:15] Speaker C: Provided you can afford repayment. A lot of people can go under with these, these types of loans because it's like a domino effect. [01:57:21] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [01:57:22] Speaker C: You know, because everything's connected to each other. If one thing sort of tips over the whole, all the dominoes fall over. [01:57:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:57:29] Speaker C: So you need a good financial planner. You just need to be, you know, quite diligent and responsible with how you handle your, your loans. [01:57:35] Speaker B: Yes, exactly right. [01:57:36] Speaker C: So it'd be good to have a chat to this guy. [01:57:39] Speaker B: Yes. [01:57:40] Speaker C: We need mortgage brokers at the moment. Everybody needs a mortgage broker because if you're turning up to a home open and want to buy a house, you better be pre approved. [01:57:48] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I get that a lot recently. Especially now. As you can see, there's only what, 3,600 properties on the market, isn't it? Everyone's fighting over that one property that's available at the moment. As you know, I'm currently roaming Morley a lot. Right. [01:58:02] Speaker C: So you know what? You should just leave PR waters mate. You should go and move to Morley. [01:58:06] Speaker B: Hey, I actually almost. There was one house that really fell in love with. You know, they say you shouldn't get emotionally attached, but I really love this house. That's one that I really liked and I was contemplating should I, should I not? But anyway, obviously I've never heard a. [01:58:20] Speaker C: Buyer'S agent talk about Morley so much. You love your Morley? [01:58:24] Speaker B: It's a nice area. [01:58:25] Speaker C: No, it is actually not. And there's. There's a lot you can do with the properties there, isn't there? [01:58:29] Speaker B: Oh yeah, it's got that. [01:58:30] Speaker C: The subdividable. Is that right? [01:58:32] Speaker A: Yes, because it's. [01:58:33] Speaker B: They're all big lands, obviously and you know, they've R25 throughout the whole thing. So everything can be subdivided as long as It's a minimum 700 square meters. [01:58:44] Speaker C: So 700 square meters can give you two titles, two lots. Yeah. Right. And how big are Those lots minimum? [01:58:50] Speaker B: 350. [01:58:51] Speaker C: 350. [01:58:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So as long as you've got 700 square meters, you can subdivide it. [01:58:56] Speaker C: So the ideal scenario there is to find a house that's well positioned in the front right or front left corner of the block. That'll give you a good battle axe. And 350. Just remind me the. The driveway that's included in the. In the. The amount of square meterage for the rear block. [01:59:13] Speaker B: Yep. [01:59:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:59:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:59:14] Speaker C: You get a bit shorter. [01:59:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:59:16] Speaker C: On the back. The backlot. But still it's more than what people. I mean, selling bloody 220s and 230s up at Alkamos, which is a, you know, highly sought after. It's made the. The top 10 again. Yeah, just this, this new planning. These new planning methods where you're just sitting on very small. [01:59:38] Speaker B: Oh yeah. I think, as you know, as you can see, the land is hardly any approvals at the moment, isn't it? And then Gosnal is going through this big change where they've massively changed the R codes as well. And that's just to get all this redevelopment happening. And Gosnel is being a very old area. If you actually been to some of the properties there. I don't. [01:59:58] Speaker C: Sold some. Yeah, yeah. Built in the 60s. Built in the 50s. [02:00:02] Speaker B: Yeah. And they've not had any renovations or anything done to it. [02:00:05] Speaker C: So it's still. [02:00:07] Speaker B: Still as it is. You know, the was a property. I went for the final inspection just two weeks ago. I don't know how, but that was an older person was living there for all his life. You know, it was completely run down. There was like water leaking at the back and this one all had like a separate, like a laundry. Separate to the house. It's outside of the house and they've got their own Dani outside as well, you know, they kind of thing. So it's quite a very old way of doing it, obviously. And that's why I think that, you know, the whole area has this massive rezoning so it can all come in and redevelop, make smaller lots. [02:00:43] Speaker C: A lot of councils are looking at this and they're at different stages of looking at how to handle population density for the future. My understanding is that it's cheaper to increase your density than it is to spread out and create new infrastructure. So it's a natural progression of a growing population, especially. Especially what we had, what, 86,000 new West Australians last year. If that trend continues, you know, we either got to spread out or live on top of each other. I dare say within the next, say, 30 years, the Perth skyline will look very different. At the moment, it's still quite flat. Yep, still quite flat. But I was very surprised, Josh, when I went back to sydney after about 15 years just looking across, I got into a vantage point looking over the city and there was a lot of just high rise, sort of not high rise. It was medium to high density developments everywhere I looked in every direction. You know, I dare say you'll see a lot more of that in Perth over the years. We're spreading, spreading north and we've discussed that many times. But the start of it's these, these sub subdivisions, the 100%. [02:01:56] Speaker B: All right, let's go into a little bit of a break, shall we, Carlos? [02:01:59] Speaker C: Yeah. And when we come back at about 4 o', clock, we should have our guest here. [02:02:03] Speaker B: Yes. All right. You're listening to the Perth Property Bros with Josh and Carlos. [02:02:10] Speaker A: More music, better mental health.