Michelle Skeene

[00:00:01] Speaker A: We can talk about that. [00:00:02] Speaker B: Yeah, we could. Oh, we could just go back to property, how about that? [00:00:07] Speaker A: What's going on with you, my friend? [00:00:09] Speaker B: Nothing, man. It's been pretty busy obviously as you know. But as you see the weather today is. This is what we're facing over the weekends now as well. Obviously home opens are not as crowded as it used to be because everyone's trying to fight this weather to get into home. [00:00:24] Speaker A: I've noticed that. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been the same. Yeah. So, yeah. And also obviously tomorrow. The RBA is meeting tomorrow so I don't see a lot of people. There's not a lot of houses on the market at the moment. So I think people are all wait and watch at the moment. [00:00:39] Speaker A: So our stocks are down again. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Our stocks are very down this time. Let's have a look. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Well, the, the people waiting are waiting for that extra dollar and we're watching prices keeping climbing. I don't know where all the money's coming from. I mean I'm getting cash offers coming in over. It's absolutely incredible. And it's property after property. They're well financed or have very little mortgage to borrow and very little bridging finance or cash. [00:01:09] Speaker B: It's interesting because I was talking to a few mortgage brokers on the way here just to catch up and see where they are at, what are they doing. Some are saying that they are getting people who wants to buy their second home and they're keeping their first home as an investment and obviously that's because is a high growth India equity, you know, so a lot of that is coming through as well. And again with interest rate dropping tomorrow that just means, you know, more affordability, you know, more you can borrow more borrowing capacity. Then you've got. [00:01:42] Speaker A: Rents are still high so the, the shortfall is relatively low. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Exactly. So you've got the makings of another big, big boom I think. Well, this is what we face, right. We're actually facing last year's figures at the moment. So week we have 300. No. Well last week, end of last week we had 306, 3675 properties for sale. [00:02:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:07] Speaker B: And that was down from 4000. [00:02:11] Speaker A: So it seems to be dropping about 200 a week. [00:02:13] Speaker B: It seems to be. [00:02:14] Speaker A: So every week we look at the figures and it's just dropping now. You put a month on that, you put three months on that. Oh yeah. And unless we're going to get a wave of new stock, it's going to get tight. [00:02:26] Speaker B: I'd like to see what Happens in a few weeks, though, once they announce this red card, we'll see what happens. Like I said, see, last week, last year, we had 3,100 properties on the market. This year we had 3,600. [00:02:39] Speaker A: So it's starting to line up again. How interesting. [00:02:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And property that sold over the week was only about a thousand properties, so it actually went up this time. So last time we had about 868, this time about 1,000. And funny, a lot of property is doing really well north of the river. This time. Duncraig has made the list. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Duncraig? [00:03:01] Speaker B: Duncraig in Rockingham is there. Look at that. [00:03:03] Speaker A: Really? [00:03:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:06] Speaker A: System you've got here, Josh. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Oh, you know, I'm very. [00:03:08] Speaker A: What is this called again? [00:03:09] Speaker B: This is a remarkable. [00:03:11] Speaker A: A remarkable tablet. Yeah. I see you use it everywhere. This is your baby. Look at those remarkable figures. So how are you going with your. With your buyer's agency? [00:03:23] Speaker B: Yeah, good, man. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Getting some new clients. I mean, I'm finding, as you know, that I'm finding it easier and easier to refer you because people are coming to me missing out at properties, and they're saying, you know, it's so tight. I've got so much competition, and I'm just jumping and say, oh, you need to get ahead of the competition. You need a buyer's agent. Have you ever thought of a buyer's agent? What's a buyer's agent? Education component of. And, yeah, and look, there's a definite need for buyer's agents at the moment. It's really. And people that need it don't know they need it. So this is where we need to educate them. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Yes, I think, as I mentioned, most of the time I'm sitting down, it's more to educate them what a buyer's agent is. What do we do? So half the time, I think 75% of the conversation is, what is a buyer's agent? [00:04:11] Speaker A: What is a buyer's agent? But people do need one. Like I even referred an interstate client to the other day that needs to buy something. And if they're going in to compete with everybody else that's going to those home opens, well, they're not ahead of the game. [00:04:24] Speaker B: Correct. [00:04:25] Speaker A: You know, I've often said when. Even when I speak for myself, and I know this is an industry practice, when I get a new property list, I'll start preparing it for sale. And I usually start to contact my investors, people that I know are in the market, people that have put their name down with me, people that I know Depending on how the investment's actually stacking up. And I tell them, look, I've got something coming up. Ask any agent, any sales agent, I've got something coming up, something coming up. So by the time it's gotten to the market, a lot of people in the inner circle or the agents contact list already know about this property, right? And then when it hits the market, then all of a sudden you're competing with the whole general public. Everybody that's in the market at a certain range or in the suburb has a specific need, an upgrade, whatever, whatever the reason, now you're competing against them. So you go into the home opens, 10, 20, 40, 100 people out the door, whatever it is, you know, there's going to be people that are just tyre kickers and shopping around, fine, we take them out of the equation. But a good chunk of those people are going to be serious buyers. And now you've got a bit of a bidding war going on with these people. So all of that aside, I just say to people, just get ahead of the game. Speak to a buyer's agent, call Josh. Here's his number. Josh will approach people for you. Josh will find what you're after and approach them before they even decide they want to sell, before they're even sure they even want to go to market. Josh can approach them and say, hey, I've got a genuine buyer looking at this house in this area sounds a bit corny because it's historically something that a lot of agents would say, but in this case it's quite specifically what you do. [00:06:06] Speaker B: That's why I keep saying you should join my sales team there, Carlos. You are. Yeah, no, you do it. You do it very well, actually. [00:06:16] Speaker A: So I find it easier and easier and it's just because people have a genuine need. You know, they're thirsty and I'm just giving them a bottle of water. It's. I'm finding it that easy because so many people say to me when they come through my home opens, they've just missed out on something. We had a home open on Thursday night where that was said to me. I had another one on Saturday where it was said to me, people saying that they just keep missing out. They put offers in, somebody comes in above them. They have no idea that they've got so much competition around them. [00:06:48] Speaker B: Sometimes surprising, right? To say, when you say, I don't know, there's a lot of competition, I kind of understand, but that's our market. That's how it's been for the last two Years, right? Two, three years. [00:06:59] Speaker A: People are still in denial that the prices are where they are. Other people I speak to are saying that they're. That the market's going to crash. It's going to go back. It's going to go back to what it was, you know, 20, 20, 13 to 2020. It's going to go back. It's never going to go back. [00:07:12] Speaker B: So remember that term that I mentioned to you, Como, Como, Como? [00:07:18] Speaker A: Didn't I mention that term to you? [00:07:19] Speaker B: No, you did not. I actually brought it up to you. So I'm going to claim it now and before you say it, on Wednesday. [00:07:27] Speaker A: So Como, listeners, what Como is. Yeah, that was an interesting suburb of Perth. [00:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah, actually, that was right. I actually googled Como, and it's like, oh, como is this. I said, no, that's not what I'm talking about. So anyway, I was reading this article and there's this new coin, this new phrase coin is called como. So it's called compromise or miss out. All right, so obviously we've heard of. [00:07:51] Speaker A: Fear of missing out. [00:07:52] Speaker B: So we heard of fomo, fear of missing out. We heard of foop, F O O P, which is fear of overpaying. And now you've got Como, Compromise or Ms. Out. So basically what it means is people are feeling that, oh, you know, like. Like this low stock, they don't know what to do. They, you know, prices are just getting out of hand and stuff. They're just having to compromise whatever that they want because, you know, even when I go through it buys, like, what do you want? What do you don't want? What is the, you know. Yeah, they can't. What sort of lifestyle, where do you want to buy and stuff. [00:08:24] Speaker A: Now, I guess that would mean if the ideal scenario for the buyer is going to be house and land package, starting price 850, it's a bit too much. Or a decent house. House and land package over a mill. That's getting a bit tight, especially with the repayments. But you can buy yourself a unit in the strata complex for 600. Everybody's saying this is the FOMO coming in. Everybody's saying you have to get in the market. You have to get in the market. Then you've got other people with a lot of toys because they've been in the market and gained a mass amount of equity. And these people are compromising or missing out. [00:08:58] Speaker B: I'll give you a good scenario. I had a client call me recently and he's like, oh, Josh, the market is crazy. My budget's about 900,000. But I don't know, I can buy a house, so I'll probably look at a two bedroom apartment. I was like, you've got so much options out there. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Jesus, 900 could have bought three houses. [00:09:17] Speaker B: In Armadale five years ago back then. Yeah, but you know, what I'm saying is there are options out there. So obviously if you're not in the market, you're not going to know all this. You know, it's a matter of knowing. You see, there's this other client that I met over the weekend. Their only option that they were looking at was Piara, Waters, Harrysdale. That's it. And they're always missing out. [00:09:39] Speaker A: Is that because of the school? [00:09:40] Speaker B: It's because of the school, correct? No, but it's also because they were recently divorced. So they've, you know, they've got the children lives close by in 3B. So at least it'd be in close proximity pretty much as opposed to traveling long distances. So anyway, they wanted to live there and this was their budget. And I was like, well if that's the case, you cannot afford this area for this budget. But if you look a little bit outside, a little bit outside the box, you can find something for your budget, you know what I mean? So it's, you're not compromising. Okay. You may compromise the suburb, but there are other suburbs as well close by. Or if you adjust your budget a little bit or expectation. So instead of a four bedroom, let's go down to a three by two maybe with a theater. So you have a possibility of converting the theatre into a room. [00:10:32] Speaker A: This is going to become more common. It was always historically just a theater. [00:10:37] Speaker B: Correct. [00:10:38] Speaker A: It's an added bonus to a house now it's, it is versions the bedroom. Put it, put in some robes. [00:10:42] Speaker B: It is. [00:10:43] Speaker A: And sometimes it becomes as big as the master bedroom. [00:10:46] Speaker B: Yep. So it's good. I mean it's a matter of just putting like a wardrobe in there and you're done. You know the kind of thing. [00:10:52] Speaker A: So the people that I was dealing with over the weekend, they put an offer in in Harristow for 1.4 and they missed out. [00:11:00] Speaker B: Wow. [00:11:01] Speaker A: I can't believe that sort of money is being thrown around considering the, the last house that I sold in Harris, that Harrisdale was 702, which was late last year. And even the people I spoke to on the street were like, you couldn't give these houses away for 352 years ago. Everything was for sale, nobody was buying. And we thought we were doing pretty well in the 700 range, even the seller was doing backflips and now we're dealing in the millions. [00:11:26] Speaker B: You are, you are incredible. So anything for a 4x2 on a 375 square meter block, you're easily looking at 900,000 and above. So if the block is about 500 square meters, you're looking about a million plus. So yeah, that area has done really well. [00:11:45] Speaker A: Incredible. So they've effectively quadrupled, haven't they, some of these prices going back from there, you know, 300 days, 350 days. [00:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, you're talking, well it's relatively new, so. But you're talking like 20 years probably, you know, so 20 years. Yes, I remember. I've got a friend. You've got different stages of the build. Obviously I bought into the last stage of the build. [00:12:07] Speaker A: You own something in Hariston? [00:12:08] Speaker B: I own, yeah, I have a property in Pierra Waters. I built, I built in Pierrot Waters. But this was where we're talking 2016 when I built and I was one of the last stages over there and I was talking to a friend and we were, we were out for dinner and it was like, oh my God, we've got, you know, our repayments are so big and stuff. All right, cool, tell me, what do you have? And you know, oh, we have a 500 plus square meters and you know, it's a nice 4x2 and we bought it for about 370 or something like that. Back then I was like, my land alone cost 306, you know, and that's a 375 square meters. So that vast difference. [00:12:52] Speaker A: Aren't those comparables? Interesting. Wow. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So, so those who got in early. Yes, definitely. [00:13:01] Speaker A: But you know, it goes back to the old saying, you know, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. And the next best time is today is today. [00:13:09] Speaker B: I think like what we've mentioned many times, like, yes, the market is stalled for a while, but we are where we're supposed to be at. [00:13:16] Speaker A: That's true. If you look at the long term graphs, I mean 30, 40 years, you're looking at a consistent trend going up. You know, you take into account the last 10, even the last five, even though there's been anomalies and big jumps and whatever, when you average that out over time, we're right on track. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah, and it was good that. I remember the other day I was listening to some of the big guys, you know, talk about property and boys. [00:13:38] Speaker A: We are the big boys. We are the property bros. Maybe the. [00:13:41] Speaker B: Bigger boys, they would say, oh, well, welcome, Perth. Welcome to the major leagues. And you're like, wow, finally we are up there. [00:13:54] Speaker A: Well, nobody wanted to come over here too much. It was too far away. Then people realized what. What a great investment it is. [00:14:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know, I think we've harped on about this many times where this is just a lifestyle here. You know, our lifestyle is very different to what you get in Sydney, what you get to in Melbourne, what you get in Gold Coast. You know, all the east coast is. [00:14:17] Speaker A: In the drink over winter. We don't get floods here. [00:14:21] Speaker B: No, we don't get as many floods. We don't get that many. I mean, not maybe. Remember the fire that went. That happened in New South Wales recently as well. Then the winds in Melbourne the other day and, yeah, we're pretty good here. [00:14:35] Speaker A: I mean, we'll get a bit of heat, you know, it's a bit hot, I think, like last year. I didn't get to get there this year, but last year I clocked 47 at Gosnells. I was running around doing appraisals. I'm like, my goodness, this heat. Yeah, but there's a lot of benefits. I mean, even our roads are in. In very good condition. You notice that wherever you go, there's barely any pot holes or patches. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:00] Speaker A: That's because it doesn't rain so much. Yeah. [00:15:04] Speaker B: We'Ve got a lot going for us. Yeah. I think people always don't know about it so much, so it's good. We'll keep it nice and hidden. [00:15:14] Speaker A: Awesome. Let's keep the secret. We've rabbited on for, what, 23 minutes with a little technical difficulty. Difficulty that I'll forgive you for. [00:15:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:21] Speaker A: Why don't we go to a quick break? [00:15:25] Speaker B: Well, we did restart the computer there, Carlos. I actually had all my songs up there. [00:15:28] Speaker A: That is actually fair enough. [00:15:33] Speaker B: So we've got a property manager on today? [00:15:35] Speaker A: We do. Michelle Skeen. [00:15:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:37] Speaker A: From Focus West Property. She's a very good friend of mine and one of my referral partners. And now one of our referral partners. Yes, because Michelle has extended her staff to join our BNI chapter, which is our referral group. So we're looking forward to working closely with her. Property manager, Chaney. [00:15:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:55] Speaker A: And Michelle. Yeah. Interesting to have Michelle on because she's a principal property manager and we rarely find these guys. Primarily the focus of most agents and agencies is sales. So generally when they've got a rent roll, when they've got properties for rent, they're under management. And look after they. They just. The number one, the rent roll pays the overheads and number two, they're keeping them warm by looking after them until it's time to sell. That's really their major motivation because the sales is where the big money starts to come in for them. Yeah, but Michelle's different. We working together with the sales, her and I. She is a principal property manager. She can tell you back to front, upside down, what goes on with the legislation, how it affects tenants, how it affects. Affects landlords, how to manage a property. Whereas a lot of the property managers that we find around the place are actually sales agents. So she's actually going to be a very good person to converse with about property management and what she's finding in the industry these days. [00:16:57] Speaker B: You're one of the few agents that I know that don't actually own rental there, Carlos. I know you mentioned you used to have a big one. [00:17:06] Speaker A: For many years. [00:17:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I did it for. [00:17:08] Speaker A: For many, many years. I actually started my career at 15 years old in property management. [00:17:13] Speaker B: Fifteen? [00:17:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:14] Speaker B: Wow. [00:17:15] Speaker A: It was the day after. No, sorry, the day before Melbourne Cup. So I remember, yeah, because we had Melbourne cup drinks and I was only 15. I'm like, well, shouldn't be drinking. I'm here in working spirit. But yeah, no, I did it for many years. I was also a principal property manager. So I understand Michelle's pain when we talk about how difficult the job can be. Josh, the job can be quite unforgiving, irrespective of how amazing you are at it. It can take a lot of energy. So it'll be an interesting conversation with Michelle and I'm looking forward to it. [00:17:55] Speaker B: All right, let's go into a bit of break and we'll come back. Go on the Perth Probably Bros with Josh and Carlos. [00:18:05] Speaker C: The best music from the 60s to today. IPL radio. [00:18:11] Speaker B: And you're back with the Pet Property Bros with Josh and Carlos. Carlos and Josh remains good songs, isn't it, Carlos? [00:18:19] Speaker A: Yeah. You're picking some good songs. [00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:20] Speaker A: No, you're very prepared with a. With a. A playlist there, my friend. [00:18:24] Speaker B: The remarkable man. [00:18:25] Speaker A: It's the remarkable. Get commission on that. Did you advertise? [00:18:31] Speaker B: Yeah. For advertising it. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, so we leaned into a little bit about property management, wasn't it? So we're going to get Michelle skin in. Obviously we're going to talk property management and obviously you've got your experience from when you were 15 years old. [00:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah, a long time ago. So, yeah, I can at least relate to Michelle. [00:18:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:54] Speaker A: We do have our chats. [00:18:55] Speaker B: I mean, it's not going to be easy. Obviously we're going to get Michelle to explain further. You're not only just dealing, obviously we always think that you're representing the landlord. Yes. But you're also having to deal with the tenant because obviously the, you know, the. You won the tenant to live there. You don't want to be on the wrong side of it as well because you still need the rent to come in. Of course, you need them to be happy. If not, they're just going to up and leave. Then you've got all the trades that you need to deal with. So you pretty much people management. [00:19:23] Speaker A: You're the meat and the sandwich. You really are. And you, you have to keep everybody happy. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:31] Speaker A: It can be a 24 hour job. 24 hours, 7 days. People can call you after hours, or they generally call you at about 3 o' clock on a Friday afternoon to say, the hot water system's broken, it's been broken all week. But they've got visitors coming on the weekend and they've just remembered to tell you. So can you get onto it right away, Josh? The amount of times that happened to. [00:19:54] Speaker B: Me, you know, I was talking to a mortgage broker that I know from Queensland. Yes. So he and his family have been buying properties. They own a lot of properties. It's close to about 500. All right. So it was a lot of properties. And it seemed like their parents here and the parents would probably on a Sunday night, they would just drive out and just look at properties. Something's for sale. They will call up the agent and they'll just put in an offer. So he said it came to a point, it's. He became the. Like he was managing property managers. Every other day he would get a phone call from property manager saying, oh, this is wrong, that is wrong, this is wrong, that is wrong. They get to a point that he sold almost 400 of it and then they started going into a commercial instead. [00:20:41] Speaker A: That doesn't surprise me at all. [00:20:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:20:44] Speaker A: Because they're the mop. More property managers you have. Talking about agencies, you can't guarantee the consistency. And every agency handles property management separately. Differently. Sorry. [00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:56] Speaker A: Whether it's a principal property manager or one that's overloaded with too many in their portfolio, or some of them will split the tasks up between different staff members. So one or the inspections only want to do maintenance, only want to do receipting, only. There's different ways to do the formula. And I believe the average time that a property Manager is in the industry as an employee across the industry, sorry, is about nine months. So that, that says that, you know, if you get a good one, she may last nine months, you know, contacting you until she's replaced or she gets pregnant. And you know, a lot of property managers are females too, so they generally come in, you know, in their early twenties into the industry and eventually they want to start a family. So they get pregnant, you've got to replace them. So whether it's a task based portfolio or they're managing the whole thing themselves, you have to replace them. So consistency in service probably one of the biggest downfalls that that man no doubt experienced. [00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So it is a big thing, isn't it? I think we had Sara Muir as well on and she talked a bit about property management. [00:22:02] Speaker A: See, Sara Mu is. I liken her to Michelle Skeen a bit because they've been in the industry a long time, but they actually manage their own people and they remain a main point of contact. There's other agents that will just completely disconnect from it. Their primary focus is sales and they put property managers on in the background to keep the rent rolls ticking, keep them warm until it's time to sell. But there's no sort of genuine interest or genuine knowledge behind what's happening behind the scenes. [00:22:30] Speaker B: So. So you've done property management for how many years, Carlos? [00:22:34] Speaker A: I started when I was 15 and how long and then I. So I moved up the ranks. I did every job in different agencies over the years until I eventually started my own agency and obviously did the sales and the management. And now I'm only doing sales in my second agency. [00:22:51] Speaker B: Do you ever go back to doing property management? [00:22:54] Speaker A: Well, I don't need to, Josh. I've. I've been around the traps. I know how it works. I've done my time, so to speak, but now we have referral partners just like you. I don't need to be a buyer's agent, nor do I need to employ one because I have you in our referral partners like Michelle. We have a property manager and we're going to meet another one soon. Actually, I'm going to take you up to Joondalup to meet my friend at Focus. Not Focus, she's Western Keys. [00:23:23] Speaker B: Yes, you mentioned that one. Yeah, that'd be good. She's up in June. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that northern side. [00:23:28] Speaker B: So, yeah, no, that's interesting. So obviously we use a lot of property managers as well, so both for you and for me, obviously when we get investors, investors want to, obviously Rent out the property and we obviously give it out, refer it out to our property manager friends. And as you know, Mr. Michelle Skeen has just recently joined our BNI as well. [00:23:51] Speaker A: She has indeed. Yes, I have been hounding her about it. [00:23:54] Speaker B: Yes, you have. [00:23:55] Speaker A: She was, she wasn't very committal at the first place, I thought. Oh, I hadn't thought about it but you know, every other week I kept calling and calling Michelle, it's time. And I finally convinced her. [00:24:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I gave her a story, I think that day about. What was the story? The little train. That's cool. Yeah, I think she loved that story so much that. Yeah, maybe that tipped over the joining. [00:24:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, that's right. She was there that day. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Yes. [00:24:24] Speaker A: No, it's going to be interesting conversation. There's a lot of questions we can ask about property management and if there's any listeners that want to message a question into Michelle, My mobile is 0419-7755. Feel free to ask any questions when it's time to get Michelle on and, and ask away questions, concerns as tenants, landlords, she's there for. Available to Everybody. [00:24:46] Speaker B: She's got 20 years expertise in the field. So let's make use of it, isn't it? So Carlos, how often are you finding people still trying to manage the property themselves, not using property managers? I think we had one case as well recently, isn't it? [00:25:02] Speaker A: It's not very common and I don't generally come across them. Generally. I don't know if it's a generalization. People that manage their own properties, they don't want to pay a property manager. So if they don't want to pay a property manager, they're probably not going to want to pay a sales agent to do the sale. So generally I don't sort of come across those sort of people. I'm dealing with other types of people. I see business differently. [00:25:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's like case by case like you said, like a lot of them tend to self manage is either renting it to their friends or their family members and stuff. And usually you'll get a call, you know, a property manager or like even myself, like all right, Josh, I'm having these issues here with this person. How do I now? [00:25:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I was about to say that's when I get the call I had long ago when they've, they've managed themselves. It's. And it was specifically in this case to save fees. Why do you want to pay a property manager letting fee and all these bits and pieces and they. They were in it. They were right in it. This tenant hadn't paid rent for months, kicked the place in, was dealing drugs from the property. And then he was calling me to sort of get bits and pieces of advice of. Of how to fix it, but they're already weighing it and which property manager is going to want to come and take that on at the end while it's in a mess and fix it and put it back together when the whole point is, if you'd had one in the first place. Place. Well, more specifically, if you picked a good one and had one in the first place, you wouldn't have had that issue. [00:26:28] Speaker B: Correct? Correct. It will all have been taken care for you or you probably wouldn't. Wouldn't even know it is. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, you just get your statement at the end of the month, money in the bank at the end of the month, and your annual statement end of the year. And your investment keeps going up because the. The buyer's agents selected a good investment for them. Yeah, yeah. The value. And this is why, you know, going back to your question earlier, we have our referral partners. We don't need to build an agency with all these roles in them when we can work together. [00:26:56] Speaker B: That's right. That's the thing. It's very important to have the right team by you. In fact, even select them all beforehand. Do your interviews, reach out to each and every one and ask your questions. Find out what their portfolio is like, what their experience has been, build them all up and then go into buying your property. Then you've got everyone out there. Or if you don't obviously like people like us. We obviously got referral partners as well. We're more than happy to make recommendations. [00:27:24] Speaker A: We've got a mutual client that a developer that deals with our Belmont Group exclusively. He's using most of the room because he trusts that we're all a team and we're working together. So, I mean, that's a very good, good example of how your referral partners can work in together. [00:27:44] Speaker B: That's good. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:27:45] Speaker B: So we're looking forward to Michelle, isn't it? [00:27:47] Speaker A: Yeah, let's. Let's have a quick break. We'll bring her in. [00:27:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I see Michelle pulling up over there. So. [00:27:55] Speaker A: She hasn't accidentally giggled during the. [00:28:00] Speaker B: All right, we're going to a quick break and we'll bring Michelle on. Okay, here we go. You're listening to the Pert Pro Rebos with Josh and Carlos, IPL Radio. And we're back with the Perth property Bros with Josh and Carlos. [00:28:11] Speaker A: I'm taking over the controls at 4:30. [00:28:15] Speaker B: Then we'll be the Carlos and Josh show. Yeah, until then it's the Josh and Carlos show. Till then. Yes. A seat of power over here. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Okay, now we have Michelle Skeen from Focus West. Welcome Michelle. [00:28:28] Speaker C: Thank you guys. Thanks so much for inviting me today. [00:28:32] Speaker B: No exciting. [00:28:34] Speaker A: Michelle is a seasoned property manager and licensee with over 20 years experience including 15 years with focus Focus West Property. [00:28:41] Speaker C: Yep. [00:28:42] Speaker A: She knows Perth rental market inside and out and brings a deeply personal people first approach to the job. Welcome Michelle. Thanks for joining us. [00:28:49] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:28:50] Speaker A: So, so happy to have you here. [00:28:52] Speaker C: Yeah and it's really cool to actually see where you guys sit on a Monday afternoons. So I've heard a lot about this. [00:28:58] Speaker A: Yeah. This is our new studio. The, the so IPO radio just set up here. They've just come for another premises so we're, we're painting and renovating this. Cables everywhere but at least we're up and running. [00:29:10] Speaker C: That's good. So how does this sort of work guys? So do you want me, are you going to ask me some questions, Josh? [00:29:16] Speaker B: I'm going to be very thorough with that. No, Michelle, this is just a, you know, it's, it's just a friendly environment. We're just having a chat, don't worry. But I'll ask you the questions left and right and center. [00:29:29] Speaker C: Okay, cool. [00:29:31] Speaker B: All right, well let's start. You've been doing this for the last 20 years obviously. [00:29:36] Speaker C: Yeah, so I fell into it. I what was I doing? I had a stint teaching and then I was actually running a child care business and then I was knocking my house down, down and close that down and happen to be, I mean I'd sort of fallen in I guess you could say. I started off by starting to invest in property and I at the time thinking oh gosh, these pesky property managers, look at all this money that they charge. I can do that better myself. And I was holding down a full time job at the time and believed a lady that presented herself to me as being above board and oh she sounding good and looks great and put her in a property and she didn't pay me any rent and literally about alarm bells started going off three, four weeks after she moved in and it's a pretty lonely place to be in when you're thinking geez how do I approach this and turn this around. So learnt the hard way I suppose I had to navigate magistrate court and find out was very, very intimidating and obviously I wasn't having A professional hat. At the time I was a landlord and yeah, I guess you could say from that negative experience. It's sort of, I guess a lot of people, because I've spoken to people and that they go, oh, what happens? Like, principally, I think people have got two main fears and that's what's going to happen. How am I going to pay my. Commit my, to my mortgage payment and what the bejesus am I going to do if the wrong person is put in my property? So I sort of learned a very, very fast, steep learning curve through that process and I guess kind of ironically it ended up becoming a career in a profession. That said, I still don't manage directly my own property. It's a bit like being the proverbial carpenter's wife, I think sometimes you've got to step back, I think, to get that professional perspective. Particularly I think if you've lived in a property, it's kind of hard to look at Nana's rose bush out the back and not feel a bit aggrieved when the tenants aren't pruning it to the standard that. So it's really, you know, trying to keep that, that professional perspective. So that could be an opportunity to get a professional in. That said, I heard you guys talking a bit earlier about the percentage. I think it's actually quite high in Australia, isn't it? I thought it was somewhere between 20 and 30% of people actually self manage and I'm sure a lot of them self manage very, very effectively. They might have the bent for doing that kind of thing, but in my experience it's usually when you get too chummy with one of your tenants. I remember a case in point years and years ago, I was doing some contracting for a company and the landlord used to go around and have beers with his tenant, like a real bro kind of relationship. And then one day the tenant knocked on the agency door and said to us, oh, I'm off to South America for a month. Would you ask the landlord if he can give me a rent, I don't know, abatement while I'm on holidays and you know. [00:33:07] Speaker A: Pay cheaper rent. Not there obviously. [00:33:09] Speaker C: And after we sort of picked ourselves up off the floor, kind of like tugging cheek, laughing, obviously we still have to proceed and get a landlord's instructions. So I think it was me actually rang this person and said, oh, so and so is wanting a rent abatement and he actually gave it to them. [00:33:27] Speaker B: I couldn't believe it. [00:33:28] Speaker A: Well, you never know, do you? [00:33:30] Speaker C: You don't you don't. So lots of stories, lots and lots of stories. [00:33:34] Speaker A: I do agree with you, but you need to keep that professional separation. I mean, I gave you my own property, with all my experience in property management, I gave it to you just to keep that separation, that degree of separation in place. [00:33:46] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:33:47] Speaker B: I think it's, it's also important to know like, you know, most of them will find once you get one bad tenant or one bad experience, that's why it's like insurance. Right. You always say you don't need it until you need it. Yeah, there you go. So same thing with a property manager. Until you need it. When you're starting to pull your hair out and be like, oh my God, I need a property manager. [00:34:07] Speaker C: Yeah, that's it. And of course we're really talking about that half of 1%. You know, the majority of people do the right thing. I mean, that's their home, that's where they're raising their children. And especially with the market being as it is today, people are renting for a much bigger period in their life than ever before. I think so. But that said, good plan of attack if you are or considering to be a residential investor, is to get yourself a good landlord insurance policy. And if you don't have the time and the expertise, some good rental management. And if you mitigate your risk, you don't get away from risk, but you bring it back down very nicely, I think, to that unfortunate situation. And look, in my experience, when the odds situation goes awry, it's. It could just be one crisis for people. You know, maybe they've had a family crisis, a death in the family or a loss of a job or something like that. And I sort of counsel all my clients to aim to try to keep, you know, two to three months worth of rental income, maybe in an offset account or you know, their retirement income if they're, if they're living off their rental income. So that just in the situation where things do go astray that you've sort of got that backup and coverage. Because even with good landlord insurance, it's still going to take a few weeks, isn't it, to trickle that through and get that back down to where it needs to get to. [00:35:46] Speaker B: You always need something for a rainy day. It doesn't matter what it is. [00:35:49] Speaker C: That's it. [00:35:50] Speaker B: But anyway, let's talk a little bit about the current rental landscape. Right. So obviously we went to through a bit in Covid. [00:35:57] Speaker C: We certainly. [00:35:58] Speaker B: And you know, with all the rent freezes and stuff. So talk to us a little bit about that change in landscape, you know, from what it was and what it is now. And obviously now there's not a lot of rentals as well. [00:36:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:10] Speaker B: Or in fact it's going up a little bit in some places. But yeah, yeah. [00:36:14] Speaker C: And I mentioned this very point at my business group last Friday and I'll give you the date guys. So it was actually the 30th of April 2021. Our then Premier, Mark McGowan, the moratorium or the rental freeze officially came down. Now, as much as they directed us not to raise rents in practicality in wa, especially in Perth, we had not seen any real increases in rent since about 2014, 2015. I think a removalist I used to talk to a lot summed it up. He said to me, Michelle, every, every truck that I'm bringing over to WA with furniture, I'm sending three back or no, I've got it wrong, haven't I? I'm sending three over race that are furnished people's furniture as they're exiting WA and then one for every three coming back. So I think, think that was like a combination of different things. At that time a lot of mining projects. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Weren'T big either. You were, you were doing very small $10 here, $20 was a huge rent increase. You get a phone call saying why you increase my rent so much. [00:37:30] Speaker C: Yep. So let's, let's use that date again. So let's say 30 April 2021. You could draw like a circle from the CBD here in Perth and the renting a property under $400 a week, you know, a three bed, even a four bed property. Obviously today that's a very different story, isn't it? I think you'd be hard pressed now to find definitely a family sized home under something with a 7 in front of the number these days. And look, it's, it's really supply and demand, isn't it? It's been a massive influx since that proverbial Covid wall came down where people were rushing to Perth. And I experienced this firsthand with one of my staff who the immigration department sort of jangled, jiggled the carrot at Comal and promised her PR if she'd come to come to Perth. So I think we were classified as a special region for the purpose, weren't we? Josh is here nodding vigorously at me. So that I think had a big effect. And back in 2016, 2018, investors had just left Perth in droves. So all that housing construction that should have been happening at that time, probably wasn't happening. I think all those things combined have us in this landscape that we're in today. And look, there's definitely been probably a little bit of easing into demand, but we're still leasing properties all around the metro area right now on the first or second home open still. So there's no doubt about it. I think it's definitely. In all my years doing this, this would be the most challenging rental market for people that are, you know, moving out of home or relocating here. [00:39:18] Speaker A: So it's properties from Mandurah up to Alchemy. [00:39:22] Speaker C: We certainly are, yeah. I started on the, the Truckee run out in Forestfield when I started this business back in 2011 and we sort of grew where people asked us to go. But look, I would just say to people out there, if you are needing your own property, it's time to move out of mum and dads or what have you. Don't give up. I find human beings are very tenacious and very, very, very flexible. So what we're seeing now, Josh, is where maybe five, six years ago we had one couple, say in a townhouse in Rivervale or Redcliffe. Now you'll have a couple and a couple of singles. So there's still. Human beings are very resilient when it comes to affording the rents. But imagine you're going for a job interview if you're applying for a property, don't take no for an answer, don't let the agent get away with with it like present and fill in their application or. A lot of it's online these days, isn't it? Take the time to give them all the detail. Because if, if you're one of, I don't know, six applications and you've put that extra detail into filling it in, trust me, you're much more likely going to have that picked up and investigated further than if you. See the thing is, when you leave gaps in your application application, that's a lot more time for us, isn't it, to process it. [00:40:42] Speaker A: So I think maybe they're trying to hide something or there's a gap there for a big reason and it's just too much of an unknown to worry about when you've got too many other applications to go through. [00:40:51] Speaker C: Or it could just be that people aren't that experienced in applying for a property and they might be intimidated by the process. [00:40:57] Speaker A: But yes, and it's complicated process. Are you using the online system? [00:41:01] Speaker C: We do. I'm a bit old fashioned as well, so I do Have a hard copy as well that we can email out to people. They can print out and fill it out. But, you know, ostensibly they're both asking for all the same things. So it's very important to us that you put in your most recent contacts, whether that's through a private landlord or through an agent. We do check, guys. We will check and make sure that that private landlord. Landlord is the actual person that owns that property. We can look that sort of stuff up and check. And ditto, obviously, for agents. Another thing I sort of say to people is if you can try and put your property manager's mobile number down, it's a lot faster for us to check with someone direct than trying to go through an office and a receptionist. Because obviously we want to do those checks in the most mindful way that we can so that we can, you know, let people know. [00:41:57] Speaker A: So, yeah, the online system that a lot of agents are using these days are very. It's very automated, isn't it? [00:42:03] Speaker C: It is. But nothing, nothing replaces picking the phone up. Carlos does it. Like there's a lot of. And I get them all the time too, where we pre fill in things about people. So you might ring up an agent and ask them all those questions and you get that prescribed answer. But you know, the question you really want to be asking them or their boss is would you rent to this person if you owned a property or would you rent to them again? And if that person pauses, that might. Might tell you a lot more in that pause than in actually what they're. [00:42:38] Speaker A: Saying here that you're actually doing a lot of these things still, personally, which I was talking about earlier. [00:42:43] Speaker C: Oh, 100%. 100%. [00:42:45] Speaker A: Because I think some of these online systems can be very unfair for tenants. They're filtering them out solely based on the data they provide. Like you say, if it's difficult for them to fill these applications in, maybe even use a computer or use an app, because it's an app system. Yeah. [00:42:59] Speaker C: And look, you'd know this too, both you guys. There's a lot of disruptors coming and we find ourselves in our local landscape of real estate. And when you break it down, I mean, there's no shortcuts. You get what you pay for in life. And when you see, say, a company that's massively discounting their fees, look, there's no, as I say, short answer. They're outsourcing stuff. So it could be someone in the Philippines that's processing your application. It could be a third party inspection or maintenance company. Now that might work brilliantly if you've got like a, you know, textbook property that never has a problem. But in my experience, most properties at some stage or another are going to need that human intervention. And nothing beats communication. I heard what you were saying earlier, Josh, about, you know, a lot of people that have had negative experiences with property management. And look, in my experience, it comes down to communication location. Now, not everybody wants a phone call every five minutes about their property. But what you want is an agent that gets to know you, gets to know your tenant and if that reaches a point where they trust us and then we can just flick them an email and say, look, there was a blocked toilet or something last Saturday and we've sent through our after hours plumber and they know you, they know that you're, you're, you're doing the right thing by them. Once, once you've got that, it's a completely different, different relationship. And yeah, you just. We're all different. We've all got different personalities and it might be like, you know, a different property manager will match better depending on the personality of the client too. [00:44:47] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's true. [00:44:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:49] Speaker B: All right, I'm going to ask you the next question. [00:44:51] Speaker C: Sure. [00:44:52] Speaker B: So obviously the Perth rental market, it's now currently sitting at 2.8%. [00:44:59] Speaker C: Yeah. And look, that's sounding better than it was, doesn't it? Because I think it was this time last year, wasn't it like 7 of a percent. So that is trending back. I think a more normalized market was between two and a half and three and a half. So we are starting to sound like we're sort of getting back there, don't we? [00:45:18] Speaker B: We are. So with that being said, are there a lot of rentals coming up? [00:45:24] Speaker C: Yeah, we are finding that probably a lot of our tenants that would routinely stay 12 months in a property are deciding to renew rather than to move out. So a lot of our leasing lately has been new business that we've brought in. So yeah, I would say that the trend has definitely been less changes with people. So whether or not that's just a little bit of anxiety around, like you've noticed here. And if I actually go out there and got to compete with six or eight other people for a property, so there could be a little bit of that still going on. But yeah, I think it has eased slightly. So. And also too, I would just say if you find yourself going to a rental home open and there's a heap of people there, there, don't be discouraged from putting an Application in. Because human nature is interesting, isn't it? I've experienced, you know, a property where eight people turn up and no one applies because I think there's no point. [00:46:25] Speaker A: That's right. Well, you don't know what they're looking for. You don't know because the landlord usually instructs the property manager to say, I'm looking for, you know, other than a great tenant that pays rent, maybe sometimes they want a specific type of person. [00:46:37] Speaker C: Yeah, well, we've got to be mindful, like we can't discriminate. You know, the Privacy act and the Discrimination act very much sets that legislation out. So we're governed by the Western Australian Residential Tenancies act of 1987. You cannot discriminate against people that have children. And here's a question for you guys. Here's one for you. I'm going to spot quiz. You can wear discriminate against tenants that want to keep a pet. Yes or no? Ah, interesting. Interesting question. Because there are some stratas that have bylaws that restrict sizes of pets and. Or completely say no to a pets. And actually if, if we've got a vacant property and the landlord doesn't want someone with a pet and we get four applications and three of them have got pets and the fourth one doesn't, we don't, you know that that landlord's quite entitled to go with the tenant that doesn't have a pet. But that being said, nothing to stop that tenant. Well, when you say you can't stop them, Carlos, they've actually, this is some new legislation that they brought out about 12 months ago whereby rather than it just being a blanket nose where a landlord can just say no to pets, that tenant can now mediate that through Department of Mines. And there's some other legislation. I would say. No. I'd say when there has been damage at a property, it's too smart laughing at me. It's more kids might, you know, spill the cordial on the carpet or do some art work, Van Gogh on the wall. But that's pretty fixable. We had a property in Southern river that you know quite well, Carlos, and unfortunately I only just inherited that property about three, four months ago. But yeah, unfortunately the dog or the dogs that had been allowed inside sort of. Yeah. Left us a very interesting cleanup. [00:48:48] Speaker A: There's no sign of animals there. Not that I've seen anyway. Cleaned it up very well. [00:48:53] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. [00:48:54] Speaker B: So no, you're going to get all the chewed up reticulation, the dug up. [00:49:00] Speaker C: And you know, Josh, that I think speaks to like we recommend to all our clients to get your inspections done every three months. Especially some of my eastern states clients. They say, Michelle, oh, isn't one inspection every six months enough? And I would say no for insurance purposes. And we get tenants and say, oh, I get your letter and I want to curse you because I've got an inspection coming up. But they actually like it because it keeps them accountable to making sure that you know, instead of it being a big job cleaning up that yard once every six months that they're doing it every three months. [00:49:36] Speaker B: Excellent. All right, well go and do a little bit of a break and we'll come back. We are talking to Michelle Skin from Focus West. [00:49:43] Speaker C: Thank you guys. Really enjoying it. [00:49:44] Speaker B: Yeah, no problem. You're listening to the Perth Property Bros with Josh and Carlos Property. [00:49:50] Speaker C: The best music from the 60s to today, IPL radio. [00:49:56] Speaker A: And we're back again with the Perth Property Bros broadcasting all around Perth Australia and the world with our very special guest Michelle Skeen from Focus West Property in Wembley. [00:50:05] Speaker C: The world. [00:50:06] Speaker A: The world. We have listeners in America. Do you realize this? [00:50:09] Speaker C: Goodness me, I didn't know that we. [00:50:12] Speaker A: Have listeners in America. Sometimes we get questions coming in from all over Australia, all over Perth. So it is quite amazing. Yeah, it's about an 8, 000 listener base. So there you go. Hello, everybody listening now you had a question for Michelle about legislation changes. [00:50:29] Speaker B: Well we were talking a little bit about it, wasn't it Michelle, just before the show and we were talking about there's so many new reason legislation changes obviously and that's one thing good about having a property manager because they keep on top of it. Especially if you're a landlord managing yourself you're not going to know any of this kind of thing. 100 so tell us a little bit about some of the new changes that has happened, how it affects the rental. [00:50:52] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. So they came in last July 2024 and some of these changes more or less would bring wa in line with some of the other states. And as I said before I could probably talk for half an hour on each one of these. We did cover the thing about pets a little bit earlier. One of the more significant changes to our legislation here is limiting when a landlord can increase the rent. So up until July of last year it was once every six months. So bringing us more in line with the eastern states that's changed to once every 12 months. And I mean obviously rent is very much market driven so tenants should feel very rest assured that whether you're renting through an agent or privately. It's not just a license to print money every time there's a anniversary of a rent increase. [00:52:01] Speaker B: So you're just bringing it up to where the market is, isn't it? [00:52:05] Speaker C: Yeah, it kind of is. And I think, you know, most of that upswing has taken place. I think things are definitely starting to, I think, flatten out now, aren't they? [00:52:16] Speaker B: I think tenants are also more aware now that, you know, if. If they have a bit of a dispute with the tenant, they can always have, you know, look up what's the comparisons online and present. [00:52:26] Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. [00:52:27] Speaker B: And say that, you know, hey, what you're asking is a bit too high. Yeah, but if you don't ask, you don't know or you don't get, isn't it? [00:52:35] Speaker C: That's. That's exactly right. And I would just encourage anybody to, in the first instance, you know, reach out to your rental manager and ask, have that conversation. Correct. So on the back of that, another quite interesting change is this retaliation action provision. Oh, does so, yeah. It sounds quite forthright, doesn't it? Again, I think. I think good managers have always sort of navigated this space quite effectively and I guess it's just really, you know, in place now as a bit more of a legislative protection to stamp out rogue agents and landlords that possibly aren't attending. You know, they're not banking, they're off to Bali with their tax depreciation refund fund and they're not maintaining their property. So if the tenant pops their head up and disputes or asks that, this sort of is a way to stop that landlord from just, we've got a there we go function there. You can hear me. [00:53:45] Speaker A: There we go. [00:53:48] Speaker C: It's a way for the tenant to go and have that mediated. So the landlord can't just say, well, don't renew their lease. They're being difficult asking me to attend to maintenance. So tenants do have that provision in legislation now to go, hang on a minute. This doesn't seem very fair to me. So it's a way without them having to go through the stress of court to hopefully iron that out. Ban on RA rent bidding. Quite an interesting one. And this is definitely not the case in sales. [00:54:25] Speaker A: Carlos, we want them to bid, don't we? [00:54:28] Speaker C: So, yes. So back in the day. [00:54:31] Speaker A: Before, Josh and I always argue about this point. Of course, I'm trying to get the price up, he's trying to get the price down. [00:54:38] Speaker C: I think there's a few distinctions there, isn't there, with Eastern states and like they, they can't do a range over there when they advertise. [00:54:45] Speaker A: No, it's why a lot of properties go to auction. It's the only legal way to not put a price on it. [00:54:49] Speaker C: Whereas we very much over here troll and use that, utilize that end date sale, which works very well. [00:54:57] Speaker B: We're the only state at the moment, isn't it? Sorry, we're the only state to do that? [00:55:01] Speaker A: I believe so. I haven't heard of any others that can still do it. We are very tight on legislation in some way, some aspects. In other aspects, very lax like price and. Very lax. [00:55:10] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. [00:55:11] Speaker A: I think that if people start getting into trouble over time, maybe underselling properties or significant losses to a seller or potentially lead to these sort of issues tightening up. [00:55:23] Speaker C: But yeah, back to bans on rent bidding. So principally what that means now is if three people walk into a home open and let's say the agent's got it advertised for 650 a week, it is unlikely lawful for that agent to ask those people to put in their best offer. [00:55:45] Speaker A: However. [00:55:48] Speaker C: There'S nothing to stop a tenant from a prospective tenant from offering more. But from a legislative lawful point of view, as licensed agents, we can't ask a tenant to offer more. So I think that's quite important. I think that's really levels that playing field to give everybody the same chance. [00:56:10] Speaker B: So to understand it correctly, if you've got a price, say 700 per week, that's the price. But if a tenant were to come and say, hey, I want to offer 750 a week, that's up. Up to them. [00:56:20] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. [00:56:21] Speaker B: You are not instigating it. [00:56:23] Speaker C: Yeah. And obviously they, their application would still need to be vetted and sometimes it can believe it or not, be a little bit of a red flag when someone comes in gun ho offering an extra 50 or $100 a week, you know, why, what's the story behind that? [00:56:39] Speaker A: Even offering rent advance three months, six months. [00:56:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:42] Speaker A: Rent in advance. That can also be a red flag. [00:56:44] Speaker C: Yeah, well it's technically again not lawful per se. Like we can only ask for the bond and two weeks rent up front. But again I can't see stop someone from putting three months or six months rent in the trust account. You can't ask for it. [00:57:00] Speaker A: Yeah. You can only ask for what's lawful. But it's up to them if they want to put six months in the account. [00:57:04] Speaker C: Yep. [00:57:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:06] Speaker A: Which can make things hard as we discussed. [00:57:07] Speaker C: Yeah. And then the other two that came in last July, minor modifications to property and, and this created a bit of angst at the time, we were all asking, well, what constitutes a minor modification in. Is that painting the walls black and painting pink polka dots on the kitchen cupboards and really and truly, no, you know, it just allows facility to do things like put coat hangers, put hooks on walls and things like that. However, the tenant still needs to ensure when they vacate that they bring it back square to how it was when they moved in. So we've really just. At the coal face, we haven't seen any difference really with any of these, even the PET one, there hasn't been much changes and then changes to bond disposal. Tenants now have the opportunity to have their any bond dispute heard by Department of Mines. So rather again, all the stress of going to court to dispute a disposal, the Department of Mines can get involved. And again, at the coal face, I certainly. My agency hasn't had any hands on experience with any of these changes. But look, I think it definitely does, as I say, bring us in line with the Eastern states and it's really an acknowledgment and reflecting that people are oftentimes going to be renting for a lot longer. The chief principal distinction between WA and the Eastern states, which has not been brought in yet, is this no fault termination. In Western Australia, if you want possession of your investment property back, you just give the tenant the statutory notice. So that's usually 30 days under a fixed lease or 60 days under a periodic. [00:58:58] Speaker A: What's the proposed change? [00:59:00] Speaker C: In the Eastern states, there's usually usually only two reasons that a landlord can ask for possession of their property back, and that is if they're moving into it or if they plan on selling it. Obviously, if a tenant's in rent arrears or done some damage or breach process. [00:59:18] Speaker A: That can be very hard to get them out. Yeah, but there isn't a magistrates court system over there, there's a tribunal system. [00:59:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:24] Speaker A: And I know to the tenant's advantage. [00:59:27] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. [00:59:28] Speaker A: Even if, even if you show a history of payment, you've got all your paperwork. Right, sorry, history of non payment, the tribunal has full discretion and they can allow the tenant to stay. [00:59:38] Speaker C: Well, my colleague Komal in Melbourne, she was saying to me that you can't even send a tenant a late rent notice unless they're at least 14 days in arrears and that's very different here. We can send it after one day. So. So, yeah, few distinctions. I do speculate, though, it's not a matter of if it is a matter of when this no fault termination I think gets dropped over here and they we will be in the same boat. And that will make it more important than ever to make sure that you're really vetting and screening people properly before you put them in. You know, look, I just think it's a, a no brainer. 350, $370 a year for landlords insurance to protect your asset that might be worth half a million dollars. Not everybody chooses to commit to that. [01:00:32] Speaker A: Oh, and you see properties go wrong. I mean massive cleanups, massive repair jobs. Depending on the company they might be charging in excess per room. Others don't charge excesses. But for the nominal amount you pay per annum that's tax deductible. [01:00:43] Speaker C: Correct. [01:00:44] Speaker A: Another level of protection beyond your property manager. It is a night brainer. [01:00:48] Speaker C: Ask yourself how many months you could continue to maintain the mortgage on your investment property without your rental income. That's what you're insuring with landlords insurance, you're insuring your rental income. [01:00:59] Speaker B: So there's another one, isn't it about, about domestic abuse where you can actually break your lease as well? [01:01:07] Speaker C: Yeah. So we've actually got a file that sits in the cupboard in our office and it doesn't matter who the victim is or who the perpetrator is, they just need someone. There's a list. I think it could be a GP or a social worker, police officer, someone to fill in and verify that a person has experienced some kind of abuse in that home. And then that person can vacate. They only have to give seven days notice and the person that's going to be remaining there on the lease, oh, and that person has to be refunded their share of the bond and then whoever is remaining in place at the property would then have to top up that bond. Again, my agency, see we've never had any actual experience. I think we got close once but the lady ended up actually moving out of the property altogether. But there is some support and I mean I think that legislation that's been in for a while, probably six or seven years and that was just to assist people that may have found themselves in a situation where they had to leave a property, their name was still the lease. So their good rental history was getting compromised by the person that remained that maybe let things go or stop paying the rent. So it's a way to get them legally off that lease without having to go to court. So all these things are designed to make the whole system of renting fairer for People, Sorry. [01:02:50] Speaker A: Do you know what I find interesting, Josh, is that when I'm meeting, meeting property managers around Perth, I'm. I'm not dealing with a principal property manager like Michelle. This is what I was saying before she came on the show. She's so knowledgeable, in and out, back and forth, you know, about property management, how it works, dealing with tenants, legislation, how it applies, how to protect your landlords. [01:03:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:12] Speaker A: It is such an important difference that. [01:03:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:15] Speaker A: When you're dealing with Michelle, that's what you're getting. Yeah, you know, just getting that. Well, what I said earlier, that sales agent that's actually pretending to be a property manager, that's not the case with. [01:03:25] Speaker C: You, that people just need to be. To have good support, I think. So if your team feels supported, they're going to be much better, I think at being able to provide services and do it in a way that's fair. I'm a bit of a three strikes you're out kind of lady. So you know, look, it can happen to the best of us. If someone has a bit of a crisis and they miss a rent payment and they clean that up and do the right thing, I don't think that's the necessarily the end of the universe. But the point is, you know, we, as I say, we're often at the coal face. We get to see people when they can be their most vulnerable. They reckon that moving house can be right up there stress wise with death and divorce. Yeah, I've heard it. Seriously? Seriously. [01:04:18] Speaker A: Is that right? [01:04:19] Speaker C: Apparently I read it on the Internet. It must be true. [01:04:23] Speaker A: It must be true then if it was on TikTok, definitely. [01:04:25] Speaker C: But I would just say my point is that, you know, staff working in our industry deserve to feel supported and also feel safe when they come to, to work. And things can sometimes, you know, when you're talking about people's money, you're talking about people's homes, it can get emotional, it can get fraught and it's worth just remembering there's a human being at the end of that phone and at the end of that email and I think that it just makes good business sense to, you know, support your team. And that's kind of what I've got always tried to do. [01:05:04] Speaker A: We're gonna have a very quick break and then. Josh, do we have a quick fire around tonight for Michelle? [01:05:08] Speaker B: I do. [01:05:09] Speaker A: Oh, well, I'm looking forward to that. And Michelle's. I'm gonna put Michelle's favorite song, her. [01:05:14] Speaker C: Song request makes me cry. [01:05:17] Speaker A: Here we go. This one's for Michelle. Back with the property bros. Carlos and Josh, now that I've taken over the reins. Josh. [01:05:24] Speaker B: Now that you're sitting there, that's fine. [01:05:27] Speaker A: The seat, the seat of power. No. And a very special guest and very good friend of mine, Michelle Skeen. [01:05:32] Speaker C: Thank you. [01:05:32] Speaker A: It's been a great chat so far. Talking property management. [01:05:36] Speaker B: No, it's been good. I think she's really showing her 20 years experience. There you go. [01:05:41] Speaker A: Oh no. Michelle is a wealth of knowledge. Really. Really? [01:05:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:45] Speaker A: And we were just talking about bni. [01:05:46] Speaker C: Of course, we certainly were. [01:05:48] Speaker A: You've joined our chapter. You're in BNI unite over in South Perth, is it Collier park, next to. [01:05:55] Speaker C: The Curtin Uni at Bentley Golf Course. [01:06:00] Speaker A: How have you found bni? I know you, you said you covered this on Facebook the other day when you spoke to John Williamson. [01:06:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:07] Speaker A: And you've been in B and I for quite some time and you talked about being it being the, the gift that keeps on giving. [01:06:12] Speaker C: Yeah, because it's all as you were saying, Josh. I think alliance partnerships. So it can be very lonely and isolating being in your own business. And the business Networking International is just my most important client appointment. Sorry guys, Today's really great But Friday morning 9, 15 till 11, my chapter meets and it's just an absolutely fantastic way obviously to build your business. But it's also just so wonderful to see other small and medium sized businesses thrive and you get to play a part in their journey sometimes as well. [01:06:54] Speaker A: It's the attitude to have that once a week you're having coffee or you're meeting your biggest client when you're going to BNI meetings. Because how much of our business comes from BNI? Oh, I attribute 80% to my business. [01:07:08] Speaker C: I mean, yeah, it's huge. It's really, really big. And us in the property space, oftentimes it is something that is, especially in property management, self perpetuating, isn't it? I mean I have clients from 11, 12 years ago that instill entrusting their property to us to manage. And they were connected, you know, I connected with them through someone through the BNI network, which is just fantastic. [01:07:38] Speaker A: And it's the flow on work, isn't it? Because Michelle and I actually spoke a couple of weeks ago, tracing this back about a year ago, just over a year ago, I sold the property in Bunbury. [01:07:47] Speaker C: That's right. [01:07:48] Speaker A: And I referred that one to Michelle. She took it over and then it was. It was just several other business opportunities that flowed. [01:07:56] Speaker C: Well, we. The. Our tenant was a radial geologist and he used to fly across from Sydney, so he wasn't even in the apartment that much. I think it was like once every six weeks. So anyway, he vacated and this company based in Hong Kong saw our ad and contacted us. And we're now managing two of their properties. And it looks like there's going to be a commercial one coming on board as well. So I can direct that back because if you hadn't connected me with that original owner of that property, Carlos, then yeah, wouldn't have developed all this other business opportunities. And I've got family down there, so that's kind of, you know, normally speaking, I wouldn't say I go down to Bunbury, but, yeah, gives me an opportunity to catch up with my brother and my nephew and do a bit of business as well, which is really good. Actually, funnily enough, just before the break, Todd just rang me. Hi, Todd, that's in my bni. And he and I were chatting, I think it was last Friday, and we were just sort of brainstorming some stuff, and he wanted some connections. Oh, gosh, I'm just trying to remember now, but it was. We were talking Airbnb and then the cleaner in our chapter and seeing about whether we could get her connected. And then it turned out, turns out that he wants a connection to a utilities company that connects tenants when they move into a property. And I know the lady, and I said, I can give you that. That connection, Todd. And he was like, oh, wow, could you. So, yeah, it's just so good. [01:09:35] Speaker A: It's this, this. This wealth of knowledge we can access with all of our professionals, cross chapter. Even. Michelle and I were in a chapter together. It was oceanic in Como. And, you know, I still put closed business in for Michelle, you know, 100%. We're not even in the same chapter anymore. And if Michelle needed somebody from our chapter or you, Josh, from hers, you know, we collaborate and help each other and that's what it's all about. [01:10:00] Speaker C: So, yeah. So for anybody listening that doesn't know what we're talking about, the business Networking International, I think it started in the States in the. The mid-1980s, didn't it? And the guy was a printer, and he lost his number one client and panicked and invited all these business friends around a. Around the table at a coffee shop. And that's where it all started. It's just going into this international business. [01:10:26] Speaker B: This is 40 years on. [01:10:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:10:28] Speaker B: And this is what it is. [01:10:29] Speaker C: Are you showing your age now, Josh? [01:10:31] Speaker A: No, no, he's showing that he listens to his cell use is what it is. [01:10:35] Speaker B: Exactly. It just means that I'm actually doing my ceus. [01:10:38] Speaker C: Very good. [01:10:39] Speaker A: He listens to his podcast. His Ivan Mer podcast. [01:10:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. No, this is actually the 40th year, so that's why it's, you know, it's done really well. It's. He's. He's actually brilliant to listen to. He's got lots of good tips. [01:10:53] Speaker C: He certainly does. And, like, yeah, you jump in the car and you've got Spotify on. And if you've got it set to the BNI podcast, it. There's just always interesting little Easter eggs in there, Here or there, you can take something into your next interaction. And I think in all our professions, it helps. I know for myself, it helps my confidence when I'm actually in front of a client or a prospective client and I've got that wealth of professional people behind me in all sorts of different industries. [01:11:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:11:23] Speaker C: The health space, the IT space, obviously the property space. I mean, that's why we're talking here today, because we've met through this. This networking referral group. So, yeah. [01:11:34] Speaker A: You've got such a great attitude about bni. You've certainly been one of my mentors. [01:11:39] Speaker C: Thank you. [01:11:40] Speaker A: I mean, you're always showing up. You're always so positive. That's something that's always stuck with me about you and how you do bni. Like, I. I can get negative sometimes, Josh. You wouldn't believe me. I know. [01:11:52] Speaker B: I face this every time during the show. [01:11:56] Speaker A: You can't try that one on with Michelle, though. You cannot try that on me from Michelle, because she'll always throw back three positives, always, no matter what you're talking about. [01:12:04] Speaker C: Yeah. And, you know, that was definitely when the rental market in Perth was so dire. I mean, let's be straight up about this. As I said, between 2014 and 2021, having the. That weekly business contact, next socializing, and people become part of your tribe. I mean, people develop friendships and family. Yes. From that, interacting. So, yeah, definitely. For me, it was fantastic. [01:12:30] Speaker A: And you get to see the growth of the people that you bring in. [01:12:33] Speaker C: Or that come in. [01:12:34] Speaker A: Even Josh. You know, I met Josh at another networking group. [01:12:38] Speaker C: Oh, so he brought you into the cult. [01:12:40] Speaker A: I did. I gave him some Kool Aid and in he came. And Josh has come leaps and bounds since he joined that networking group. [01:12:48] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. No, look, like. Like what Carlos said, you. You mean what you said as well. You know, you meet a lot of these people. You're all kind of in the Same boat. You all would have some time or another would have faced the challenges that I was facing or we 100, you know, so it's good to learn from everyone. And yeah, I think it was good. Supportive group. That's what we really need. [01:13:10] Speaker C: You know, it's interesting too, because obviously the BNI mantra is that it's only one person per industry chair, so you lock out your competition, but there's also so much access to other people in your industry and that can be really, really cool, especially if you're just floundering with something and you want to be bounce ideas off someone else. It's so supportive. [01:13:38] Speaker A: B and I people are supportive and they don't have that competitive mindset. They have a collaborative mindset. [01:13:44] Speaker C: Well, it's an abundant universe, isn't it? [01:13:46] Speaker A: Exactly. Michelle, that is your saying trademark that saying. It is an abundant universe. And if you have that collaborative mentality, the pie is big for all of us. So let's swap notes, let's help each other, let's support each other. [01:13:59] Speaker C: Definitely. [01:13:59] Speaker A: And that's what you're very good at, Michelle. So again, one of my mentors. [01:14:02] Speaker C: Thank you. [01:14:04] Speaker B: Amazing. Look, I'm going to bring it back. [01:14:07] Speaker C: Yes, bring me back, Bring me back. [01:14:08] Speaker B: And I wanted to touch a little bit on the story that you mentioned you were helping a vulnerable pension. Yeah, that's right. [01:14:17] Speaker C: So, yeah, tell me a little bit about that. I'm going to do a little shameless plug for a dear friend of mine. I met her actually through business, Julie Anglesey, who is very active in the Perth flipping space. Not only has she successfully flipped, I think over 15 properties now, I met her about 10 years ago, but she also runs a flipping course. In fact, she's probably a good guest for you guys today to get along one day. Anyway, Julie sourced a property off market last October in the town of Kwanana and she, she and I have actually flipped a couple of properties together. But this was our first business interaction with me wearing a property manager's hat. And the property was in a very poor condition. The stumps like you walked through the door and you just about put your leg through the floor. It was on a lean and the steps leading up to it, there's no way they were compliant or safe. We could have a whole other conversation about compliance and safety. Compliance. Well, look, you know, landlords could potentially go to jail. I mean, if they don't maintain their properties and someone breaks their neck. [01:15:41] Speaker A: It can be criminal. [01:15:42] Speaker C: It can be criminal. And there's another story we could go off on, but anyway, bringing it back here. So the property came with an incumbent tenant who had lived in this property for 20 years. And I was tasked with actually picking the keys up on the day of settlement from the sales rep and going over and number one, introducing myself and, and saying, brian, I just want to introduce myself. I am going to be your property manager. Oh, and by the way, the current owner, the new owner, requires you to vacate the property when your lease is up. So that was last October and his lease was in place, I think it was till February of this year. And he was on a peppercorn rent. [01:16:32] Speaker A: Are you talking about Lauderdale? [01:16:34] Speaker C: No, no, no, this is a property in Medina. And yeah, so now when I got to the property and I actually had my daughter with me and we went, we picked the keys up and we, we pulled up and there's Brian and yeah, vulnerable chappie. He was in his, I think he was in his mid late 70s, but had a lot of frail conditions. He had a bad knee and he needed surgery. And I found out later that he was practically blind, he had cataracts, and he was on a wait, public waiting list. And he's sitting there on the balcony having a smoke and a beer with his mate. So pulled up and he was very jovial and very pleasant and I don't think it really hit him. I think he thought he would just jump in his mate's car. He didn't drive. And they'd call in and see three or four real estate agents and he'd find another property to rent. And I was like, mate, the days of renting a house, even a house as bad as this one, for $290 a week or over, I mean, you know, your previous owner might have been giving you a cheap rent because they wouldn't do any maintenance. But my client didn't buy this house for a cheap price. She can't give it to you. So I, I tried a couple of times. I, I picked him up one time and took him to a little granny flat, but realized very quickly that was a steep driveway and there was no way he was going to navigate it with his knee. And then I think he must have had a few too many beers One day, it was just before Christmas and he rang me up and he said, basically with a lot of exuberance and a few expletives, told me that he was going to dob years into Today Tonight because you're kicking me out and I'm not. [01:18:16] Speaker A: Not. And is that show still on Today Tonight? Is there Anything? [01:18:19] Speaker C: No, I don't know. That's what he said. But I just, I just felt so sad for him and I thought, no, I'm going to leave him alone for a month to calm down. And in the meantime I had been putting, my staff, had been putting feelers out with RUA and St Andrews and a few other charitable organizations, organizations around town, just to see because, you know, it's really important. That was all his infrastructure was close to that house. Like his next door neighbor popped his head up over the fence when I turned up and his GP was just down the street and his other mate used to pick him up and take him to the local shops. And it's like, how, you know, how are we going to rehouse this gentleman? And happy, happy conclusion? Fortunately, a little bit. Not really coercion, but just keeping positive about it. We actually found him a room at a hostel in East Perth. His mate can actually catch the train and go and visit Brian and he's on track. I think he's having his knee surgery this month or next month. And I don't know about the cataracts, but he's getting three square meals a day. And you know, look, it's definitely there's, it's not just a financial transaction that we do, you know, we get to affect people's lives each and every single day, don't we? And for me, I know as I'm getting older, it's very much about the humanity of what we can do as agents. And as I say to my staff, I mean, we often are at the call face, you know, people are literally inviting you into their personal space, aren't they? And we see it all warts and all good and bad. And you know, we've also got to be advocates sometimes for people. And again, that's where you can bring B and I back into the conversation, Carlos. Like, for example, I have a wonderful therapist that's in my BE and I. So, you know, if we were finding or had thoughts that someone might be struggling a little bit in regard, you know, oftentimes the first sign of mental being mentally unwell is your house. It sort of goes, doesn't it? So it's a very. With caution, you've sort of got to navigate that space very sort of tactfully. But yeah, you know, we get to be in that space and, and choose to make a difference with it. [01:20:57] Speaker B: Sometimes I think, oh, that's amazing. I mean, you're right. We also sometimes see this kind, you know, not necessarily in that position, but we've got the resources to kind of tap into, to kind of help. [01:21:09] Speaker A: To help people. [01:21:10] Speaker B: Yeah, to help out people. And if we don't, we know who to call. I'm already. Carlos. Carlos, do you know this person? [01:21:18] Speaker A: It sounds like I've got two Rotarians in the making in the room. [01:21:20] Speaker B: Oh, really? [01:21:23] Speaker A: I'm giving Josh a few sips of the rotary cool aid. He's almost over the line. So, Michelle, I'm coming after you. See this rotary jacket here? It's all about service, service above self, which is something that I see you do very much. [01:21:36] Speaker C: Thank you. [01:21:38] Speaker B: So actually talking more on that. Right, so where do you find now recently where there's lots of activity? What sort of areas do you find lots of activities in terms of rental or where you find a lot of tenants missing out on properties? [01:21:55] Speaker C: Oh, okay. The further out you go from the cbd, what I find is tenants will tend to rent houses. So we're talking suburbs like Yanship, Eglinton to the north, Mandurah, Medora Bay to the south. And they will tend to live in those properties medium to long term. So by medium, I'd say at least two to three years long term, five years plus. In fact, I have a lady who's been renting a property in Morley and been involved for the last 14 years. But she actually moved into it when my youngest daughter, two months after my youngest daughter was born and Katie just turned 29. So I find houses. Tenants will tend to turn over less often as you get closer to the city and you get talking apartments, villas. It's like maybe a different stage of life for people younger. They. Yeah, I think so they will tend to turn over and vacate them. You know, might be more like. Back in the day it was every six 12 months. Maybe now every 18 months, two years. But definitely inquiry is pretty much metro wide. Josh. Like, there's no. I can't really see the differences. We. We lease properties in Eglinton. We've just leased one in Murray street in the city next to the His Majesty's car park. And it was a lady actually in Sydney relocating over here. And we had taken some video footage, so we were actually able to, normally speaking, they have to come through the property. But we showed her some video footage and the tenant hasn't even moved out yet. We've already got this tent lined up, so. [01:23:45] Speaker B: So it sounds like it's still like really heavy, isn't it? Like people are still getting. [01:23:51] Speaker C: Look at the campus, the ECU campus that's under construction in North Bridge. There's going to be 8,000 students. Now, not all of them are going to want to live in the city, but they're going to want to live very close to the city, aren't they? [01:24:07] Speaker A: Yes, that's right. [01:24:08] Speaker B: They're actually building the uni accommodation as well, along with the. Build the uni lodge, I think. [01:24:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I'd say they'll do that in house or they get some. [01:24:16] Speaker B: There's one specific. [01:24:18] Speaker C: Yeah, someone or tender for that kind of project management, won't they? [01:24:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:24:23] Speaker B: 100. [01:24:24] Speaker C: Yep. And it's interesting too, isn't it? There's so many different accommodation options available to people these days. You know, your Airbnbs, your flatmates, you know, that can be another. As much as our leases that we write say that tenants can't sublet without allowing permission, you know, principally if they're paying the rent and they're maintaining things and that, you know, they're upfront and honest with us. Most of the time, we're going to be recommending to a landlord and someone can, you know, get some extra income from that third bedroom. And then obviously that's going to make it easier for everybody, isn't it, to make the rent. [01:25:08] Speaker A: Afford the rent. Yeah. Make it more affordable. [01:25:11] Speaker C: I'm talking about vulnerable people. I was talking with a lady today from a women's refuge group and obviously that's. That's very, very challenging. You know, ladies escaping DV situations and they've got good jobs, but trying to get on their seat and leave a situation that's fraught with danger. And rents being so much more expensive now than they've ever been. That's a real tough one. And actually, Carlos, I can give you the contact. I won't mention it on air. I'm sure they wouldn't mind, but obviously, because it's a refuge, but they are seeking donations from our industry in property so that, you know, if the lady's not quite at a point that she can afford the rent, you know, we can make a little donation and that can top up their rent balance for six months while they get back on their feet. [01:26:09] Speaker B: Oh, that's amazing. [01:26:10] Speaker C: Yeah. I think there's some really good things. [01:26:12] Speaker A: Sounds like a worthy cause. [01:26:13] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's really good challenges. [01:26:16] Speaker B: So, yeah, so we've got this situation and the situation you mentioned earlier as well, you know, with the pensioner. What can landlords really learn from this? You know, what should they be thinking about, you know. Yes, you've got an investment property to make money out of it as well. [01:26:35] Speaker C: Well, I don't know with reflection, with that particular person, I mean, really and truly, that that original landlord wasn't really doing that gentleman any favours by keeping the rent cheap. From a whole compliance safety point of view. I mean, and the. I don't even want to describe to you the condition of the property when we got it. You know, sometimes I. I'm in this conversation, believe it or not, where people want to keep the rent below market and they might have their own set of reasons for doing that. That's. That's not really helping people. It's sort of maybe enabling people to become a little bit too complacent. As I said, I think human beings are very adaptable and very flexible. And yeah, I think, I think it. [01:27:33] Speaker B: Gives you the full sense of the market. That's one. And also when you actually have to go out and then find something else. [01:27:40] Speaker C: Bid that landlord might give you lifelong tenure. What happens if they pass away and that property is sold and suddenly you're out on the open rental market? And what's nice about where Brian's living now is he's getting those three cooked meals a day and he certainly wasn't getting that when he was living and fending for himself. [01:27:57] Speaker A: Isn't that fantastic? [01:27:58] Speaker C: But I would just say to landlords, look, there's a reason the ATO allows us to depreciate the capital value of our properties. We get to depreciate 2.5% per year. That's cash back in your pocket each and every year. And that is the government, the ato, acknowledging that you're providing accommodation for Western Australian families. What do you do with that money? Do you go to Bali with it? No, you don't put it in your offset account. And when that hot water system breaks or when you're going to need some minor or major repairs, you're ready for it. [01:28:38] Speaker A: What's your recommendation there, Michelle, in terms of an amount of money to have a landlord should have in an offset account in case of a $2,000 hot water system or some sort of a major repair. What do you think? [01:28:50] Speaker C: I would say aim for a minimum of three months rental income, because that's going to a good way to do it, assist you, God forbid, you've got a change of tenant. We're not in a robust market like we are now and it takes a little bit longer to rent the property out or there's some insurance claim or I, I have a property and we had a burst pipe and the house was 3 inches underwater and that took about 12 weeks from start to finish before I saw any insurance money. So that was in the middle of COVID That was really interesting because you've. [01:29:26] Speaker A: Got to cover your mortgage, don't you? [01:29:27] Speaker C: Well, yes, so. Or people that are living on their rental asset and using that for their retirement funds, you want to be tranching some funds that are easily accessible, but maybe not so easily accessible that you go and you spend all the money. So that would be that. Another thing that we've encountered from time to time is will get a corporate tenant or someone that's won lotto or sold a house and they Want to pay 6 months rent up front or more. We've just got to be very, very careful because let's say that we receipt six months rent and we pay it out to the owner, number one. If that's. They spend it, they spend it and. [01:30:09] Speaker A: Then they move out and they say we want to leave or whatever. [01:30:11] Speaker C: But thinking of the time of the year, if you spend suddenly dump six months rent in a landlord's account, April or May of that financial year, they might incur a higher tax liability for that year. Or as you say, if they spend the money and then the tenant says, I've changed my mind, I need to break my lease, you've got to claw that money back. [01:30:33] Speaker A: You've got to pay that back. Yeah, yeah. [01:30:36] Speaker C: Obviously nothing I'm saying here is financial advice or legal advice. I think it just. It's just good. Look, when you rent out a property, you're a small, you're a business. So it makes good business sense, doesn't it, to have some reserve funds there? [01:30:51] Speaker B: Yes. [01:30:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:30:51] Speaker B: 100. [01:30:52] Speaker C: Yeah. Good question, Josh. Good question. [01:30:55] Speaker A: All right, we're gonna have a very quick break and Josh has specifically requested to dedicate me a song. Michelle. So today, here it is from Josh to me. And we're back again last time this evening on our last bracket with Michelle Skeen from Focus west property. And a big thanks to people that have been requesting songs coming in from Mount Yokai in Claremont. And we've got one for Comal in Melbourne coming up very soon. So, Michelle, how have you enjoyed the show? [01:31:21] Speaker C: I've loved it, guys. Thanks so much for having me on board this afternoon. [01:31:25] Speaker A: It's been really good. [01:31:26] Speaker C: That's a long time to be talking. But we seem to have got there, haven't we? [01:31:30] Speaker A: It absolutely flows flies by. And now I have Josh's famous rapid fire question. [01:31:34] Speaker B: There you go. [01:31:35] Speaker C: Scouts on or I'll do. Answer quickly. [01:31:39] Speaker A: Here we go for our property manager. Do you prefer routine inspections or final bond inspections? [01:31:45] Speaker C: Neither. [01:31:49] Speaker A: What's the strangest thing you've ever seen in a rental property? [01:31:52] Speaker C: Probably a motorbike inside it. Yeah, inside, yeah, I see that. [01:31:57] Speaker A: Once too. Pulled apart. [01:32:00] Speaker C: Yeah. No, I can't remember now. It was a few years ago. [01:32:04] Speaker A: East coast or west coast? Investors? Who's easier to deal with? [01:32:09] Speaker C: West Coast. [01:32:10] Speaker A: Right. [01:32:11] Speaker C: They know it, Noel. [01:32:13] Speaker A: One suburb you think is underrated for investors. [01:32:16] Speaker C: Town of kwanana. You've got 728 square meter, lots of very affordable heritage listed cottages. You've got the Port of Coogee. That's. Yeah, that whole area I feel is going to boom for sure. White picket fence. [01:32:37] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah, you're absolutely. [01:32:39] Speaker C: Peppermint trees. Their heritage. It's beautiful. [01:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. What's one thing you wish every landlord would do? [01:32:50] Speaker C: Have provisions in place for minor and major maintenance. [01:32:55] Speaker A: Okay. Right. So be ready. [01:32:58] Speaker C: Be ready. [01:33:00] Speaker A: Email or phone call, which do you prefer when dealing with your clients? [01:33:04] Speaker C: I like both but probably the phone. [01:33:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I knew you'd say that one. One word to describe a good tenant. [01:33:14] Speaker B: Punctual punk. Okay. Yep. [01:33:17] Speaker C: Rent paid on time. [01:33:21] Speaker A: The most fulfilling part of your job. [01:33:23] Speaker C: The people. [01:33:24] Speaker A: Oh that's cute. And what's your go to coffee order, Michelle? [01:33:30] Speaker C: Long black. [01:33:31] Speaker A: I thought so. I was looking at a couple long blacks. [01:33:35] Speaker C: A couple, haven't I? [01:33:37] Speaker B: Nice. [01:33:38] Speaker A: So how can we reach you, Michelle? [01:33:39] Speaker C: Yep. So Ming's doing some amazing stuff with my website at the moment. Still under. We're having doing a bit of a revamp though. So if you can't get me on the FocusWestProperty.com website you can DM me via Facebook via our Facebook page or drop me an email. Michelle@focuswest property.com Happy to answer any questions people may have. [01:34:10] Speaker A: And you're generally available in the office there in Wembley of course at Harborne street and a good coffee shop. [01:34:14] Speaker C: Yeah there is about 10 meters away. Definitely is. And if I could just leave everybody just. I'd like to stress the absolute importance of ensuring that you're protecting yourself and your family with an up to date will. Client of mine passed away very suddenly three weeks ago. He was in his early 50s and he died intestate which means he didn't have a will. So not the kind of conversation any of us ever want to have the time to be thinking about that is when you don't need to. Yeah, that's a bit macabre. Sorry about that. [01:34:56] Speaker B: I think there's good, a good advice. [01:34:57] Speaker A: Have you got somebody that would. That you'd Suggest, Michelle, perhaps somebody in your BNI chapter. [01:35:03] Speaker C: I don't have anyone in my bni, but I actually have a couple of people, depending on whether it's a corporate sort of will for complicated structures because. [01:35:12] Speaker A: Some of them are very complex or. [01:35:15] Speaker C: You know, salt of the earth, Mum and Dad will. I've got someone that can assist in that regard as well. Yeah, that I can recommend for sure. [01:35:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I think it was our financial planner the other day, Josh, talking about death tax and how that affects. [01:35:32] Speaker C: Yes, we don't have death tax in Australia yet, do we? [01:35:35] Speaker B: No, no, we do as such. [01:35:37] Speaker C: Do we? It's just called something else, probably. [01:35:40] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I believe it's got to do with whether you've planned for it or not in your estate planning. [01:35:46] Speaker C: Oh, okay. [01:35:46] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a percentage percentage there to apply, either higher or lower, depending on how organised you are. [01:35:51] Speaker C: And I guess the other thing too is to make sure when you've got your will sorted is to just audit your superannuation. And yeah, I think Ian's big on this, isn't he? With the defined beneficiary, of course, because. [01:36:04] Speaker A: Sometimes you've got a spouse that's an ex spouse from years ago. [01:36:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Separated from someone. [01:36:11] Speaker A: They could still be the beneficiary. [01:36:13] Speaker C: The beneficiary of your estate, even with a will. So, yeah, good to talk to a planner or someone in working in that space for sure. [01:36:24] Speaker A: That's amazing. [01:36:25] Speaker C: Yeah. And health is wealth. [01:36:29] Speaker B: Yes. [01:36:29] Speaker A: Health, number one priority. [01:36:30] Speaker C: Absolutely. [01:36:31] Speaker A: No, it's been fantastic having you on the show, guys. [01:36:33] Speaker C: I've really enjoyed. [01:36:34] Speaker A: Feel free to throw your number, your mobile number out. [01:36:37] Speaker C: Oh, okay. [01:36:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Or contact or sorry, office contact number. Whichever one's easiest for people to call in. [01:36:43] Speaker C: Yep. You can text or call me on 041-549-0638. [01:36:51] Speaker B: Excellent. [01:36:52] Speaker C: Thank you so much. [01:36:54] Speaker B: Thanks, Michelle. I think that's quite insightful, isn't it? We had lots of good information about property management. [01:37:00] Speaker A: Well, I knew this was going to be a good session. I've been telling you for weeks, months even. We're going to get Michelle in and it's going to be a good session. Gonna be a lot of useful information. Sure enough. [01:37:11] Speaker C: Yeah. I think we've all got a book in us real estate agents, haven't we? Like it's better than reality tv. [01:37:20] Speaker A: Especially when it comes to the war stories. Oh, and things like what's the strangest from the vault. Oh, yes. What you've walked in on potentially. Or some of the tomato plants you've found. Yeah, yeah. Property managers have seen it all. [01:37:36] Speaker C: We have. [01:37:36] Speaker A: I definitely agree. [01:37:37] Speaker C: We definitely have. Stay safe, everybody. [01:37:44] Speaker B: Thank you. All right, so, Carlos, who are we having next week? Who do we have? Let me check. [01:37:51] Speaker A: Who do we have next week? Mr. Josh, let's check the schedule. [01:37:53] Speaker B: Was it. [01:37:54] Speaker A: We're still booked out for about a month in advance. And we're about to put a call out for throwing BNI partners for the property professionals that want to come in. I do have a very good friend of mine on the north side that we're undecided whether she's going to call in or come in. But another property manager, sales agent and property manager, they've all got their different takes, their different war stories, the different flavors. [01:38:17] Speaker B: Oh, it's always good to talk to different people. Everyone's got something to share. So we've got Matthew Lim. Next week is a valuer based in Willerton. Another valuer, another value. [01:38:28] Speaker A: Because I've got one from Mandra as well. She's been in the game about 50 years. [01:38:32] Speaker B: Ah, there you go. [01:38:33] Speaker A: So good. These valuers are real. See what's the best thing about these valuers, Michelle, is that we can gang up on Josh. I wasn't sure we were ganging up on Josh enough today. [01:38:43] Speaker B: We will see you next week, though. All right. [01:38:47] Speaker A: It's actually quite important that we gang up on Josh because sometimes he brings another buyer's agent in and guess who they're targeting. [01:38:53] Speaker C: Actually. Question. Have you ever had a building inspector on? [01:38:59] Speaker B: Yeah, we've had. A few some years ago now. [01:39:02] Speaker C: I did a little event and I had a building inspector, and I swear every single question from the audience was directed to the building inspector. Yeah, yeah, we had really interesting. [01:39:13] Speaker B: We had Raymond Dupre and we had. Had Paul Cable on, and it was a really good one. We had a. We had his mom in South Africa listening to us. [01:39:21] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [01:39:21] Speaker B: There you go. [01:39:22] Speaker A: Well, actually, Raymond gave us some feedback after the show. He had five or six inspections booked from the show. [01:39:28] Speaker C: Fantastic. [01:39:29] Speaker A: People listening in through the. Obviously sharing the link and tuning in. He was. Yeah, had a very successful chat with us. [01:39:38] Speaker B: That was really good. [01:39:40] Speaker A: So what have you got on this week, Mr. Mr. Josh, before we. [01:39:42] Speaker B: We close up, the same thing, man. It's all inspections on the weekend and trying to fight this weather. Just trying to stay dry is the most important thing. [01:39:52] Speaker A: Exactly right. Michelle and I negotiating a contract at the moment, trying to get one over the line. We are within about $30,000, Michelle, of trying to get a deal over the line. But we're almost there. [01:40:02] Speaker B: Yeah, all right, excellent. And what's next for you, man? What's. What's next? [01:40:07] Speaker A: Well, working on this land. Working on this land sale that we've only got a few lots left now. [01:40:12] Speaker B: That's amazing. You managed to sell quite a few on that one. [01:40:14] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's what I do, mate. Quick fire Carlos, they call me. [01:40:20] Speaker B: So if there's any developers out there who wants to land. So rapid fire, give Carlos a call, isn't it? [01:40:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's going on. We've got another one in Eglinton coming on, which is going to be. Be an interesting one and another one in Huntingdale as well as Safety Bay. I've actually got a pretty full schedule coming up. Armadale. We're preparing for lease, sorry, for sale, which is the one I sent you a few photos of. I'm at the moment calling in our BNI family to help me do the renovations, the upgrades and to get it, get it to market. [01:40:54] Speaker B: Excellent. [01:40:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:40:56] Speaker B: Well, look forward to next week again. We'll do this all over again. [01:41:02] Speaker A: All over again. Here we go. It's a pleasure coming in here every week, Josh. I look forward to seeing you every week. [01:41:08] Speaker B: There you go. I know I'm your favorite guy despite all the crap you give me. [01:41:16] Speaker A: All right, mate, Now I think our next host is already here, so we're going to play a song here called I Wonder what she's doing tonight. 4 Kymal listening in in Melbourne. This one's for you, my love. And thank you again to everybody for tuning in to the Perth Property Bros. We'll be back again next Monday at 3pm Looking forward to talking property with you soon. You're listening to Carlos and Josh. [01:41:38] Speaker C: More music, better mental health.